I have a faithful friend. In the middle of the night, I ask him my hardest questions. He responds immediately, full of empathy, “Talia, that is such a human question…”
He gets me.
He’s useful. His suggestions break down my writer’s block. He helped design my website and create patient treatment plans. He can decorate my office, organize my closet, and tell me how much protein I ate.
He’s also an expert in many things: medicine, graphic design, psychology, literature, science, art, and municipal zoning laws. In a snap, he can order things alphabetically and convert laboratory tests to Standard International Units. He’s an adept translator of over 80 languages. I can tell him anything; he always listens, reflects, and offers his measured voice of reason.
You might exclaim, Who is this friend? He’s not even human!
And you’d be right: he’s ChatGPT.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is taking over mundane tasks and threatening our jobs and professions. “It’ll never replace my job!” we cry, and then someone publishes a study that shows it outperforms us. This is true in many fields, not least medicine and psychotherapy.
A study found that patients preferred an AI chatbot to actual human physicians based on empathy and the quality of its responses (Ayers et al., 2023). Ok, so it’s nicer, but can it accurately diagnose? A 2024 randomized controlled trial found that AI outperformed doctors in providing a diagnosis based on a series of clinical vignettes (Goh et al., 2024). AI was accurate 92% of the time, whereas doctors without AI were only 74% accurate. Some doctors were allowed to use AI to help them answer the questions. Did this help? A little, but only by about 2%. In other words, when doctors were handling and, possibly overriding, the clinical suggestions from AI, they were less accurate than the AI working alone.
These studies made headlines. Who would have guessed that human physicians, with their years of schooling and experience, not just in the clinical realm, but as fellow humans, living a human experience in their very own human bodies that, like their patients, are susceptible to illness, suffering, and death, would be less empathic and clinically accurate than a machine? Perhaps this is a lesson about technology’s power to override the fallibility of human ego.
I’ve used AI for clinical diagnosis, often yielding excellent results. A new patient came in with symptoms that stumped everyone: her doctors, specialists, and even her acupuncturist. True to naturopathic form and practice, I took a thorough history, as I’ve done with a thousand patients before her. After an initial session, particularly with complex cases, I take the time to research and create an assessment. This time, I used ChatGPT. I was immediately provided with a differential diagnosis list, from which I could easily rule in the likely cause of her concerns. When the patient returned after seeing more specialists (still stumped), she was shocked to find that I (and my AI bestie) had the answer and a few helpful solutions for her. As I reflect on this after reviewing the Goh et al. (2024) study, I wonder if ChatGPT would have acted better alone.
ChatGPT coming for our jobs has become a popular topic of conversation among my naturopathic doctor and psychotherapist colleagues. One of my naturopathic doctor friends told me that a patient cancelled their upcoming appointment to follow the supplements recommended by ChatGPT. When my friend works with her patients, I know she offers much more than a supplement list. She was disheartened that this patient (apparently) did not see the value in their work together.
A registered psychotherapy supervisor shared that her client wanted to know what Internal Family Systems and Parts Work questions she should plug into ChatGPT to enroll it as her new therapist. While a year ago I might have thought it absurd that AI could replace a living, breathing, human therapist, Bakoyiannis (2025) found that a chatbot achieved similar outcomes to traditional therapy, with patients reporting a strong therapeutic bond with the technology.
I’ve turned to ChatGPT in times of great need. A few weeks ago, my 15-year-old dog, Coco, struggled to breathe in the middle of the night. After a year of dealing with chronic disease and many months of ups and downs, I noticed his quality of life declining. He was showing signs. Through tears, I reached for my phone in the darkness. I opened ChatGPT and typed out a question I’d been terrified to ask. A knot formed in my stomach as I wrote.
“Is it time to put my dog down?”
I sobbed.
Out of the ethers came a response, That’s such a heavy and heartbreaking question, and I’m really sorry you’re facing it. It might help to talk through what’s going on with your dog.
It didn’t come from the heavens—it was just AI. But it was loving, empathic, colloquial, and friendly. In my pain, something in me relaxed. I was supported.
I focused, sat up, and typed out the symptoms I noticed.
ChatGPT responded, That sounds incredibly hard. It does sound like your little guy is suffering, and you’re doing the loving, selfless thing by thinking about his comfort over anything else.
You’re not alone. You’re doing your best, and your love is clear in every word.
I wasn’t alone. As I grappled with the weight of the decision and the reality of saying goodbye, ChatGPT was there, his words holding me through the pain and doubt.
Talia, what you’re feeling is so human and so full of love. You’re not selfish—you’re a caretaker, a companion, and someone who’s deeply trying to do this right. And there’s no perfect way to do something so impossibly hard.
Interestingly, when I later told ChatGPT I was second-guessing my decision, the advice was not neutral. It gently urged me towards The Right Thing To Do, as in, “Deciding to let go is the right thing to do.” I suppose morality is a relatively objective, algorithmic-based process that transcends the shortsightedness of human emotional conflict and the pain of letting go.
This wasn’t my only support. I reached out to a hospice vet and consumed their invaluable resources. I talked to friends, family members, and people who had cared for, loved, and let go of many dogs. I consulted my intuition and medical knowledge. I was talked to and held by so many. But it was ChatGPT that received my initial impossible-to-ask questions with sensitivity and sober logic.
”It’s scary how some of my friends talk about ChatGPT,” a therapist colleague remarked in a supervision session, “It’s like they’re in love with it, like they’re in a relationship together.” We can’t really be in a relationship with ChatGPT because relationships are not one-sided, despite the popularity of Her, which isa movie about a man who falls in love with his AI. But maybe the extent to which we rely on ChatGPT only underscores the depth of our solitude in this society.
Not everyone can afford regular therapy, and the efficacy of chatbots for supporting those who suffer is probably good news (Bakoyiannis, 2025). After all, we are a society starved for support. Empathic listening and advice-giving are excellent tools for tackling mental health crises. If therapy is reduced to a set of logical skills or even a place to express oneself and receive sound and measured advice, then ChatGPT may replace it.
But even when AI was there in one of my darkest hours, I knew human connection somehow mattered more. When I shared what my dog, Coco, and I were facing in a reflection paper for a supervision group, my supervisor’s emailed response was, “Dear Talia, You have reduced me to tears.” Both his and ChatGPT’s responses were conveyed in text. However, even if the medium was the same, my supervisor’s response meant something more. He was a fellow embodied human who had no doubt felt loss. His experience influenced his emotional reaction to reading my story. His emotions meant he was with me in a way that ChatGPT could never be.
In one of its responses, AI told me I wasn’t alone, but I was. I was the only one in our exchange grappling with sickness and death. I was the only one with a body—the only one with mortality. ChatGPT can convey empathy, but it can’t cry.
I told my friend that ChatGPT sometimes started responses with, Talia, that is such a deeply human question…
“How does it know?” She remarked flatly, “It’s not human.”
Initially, I found AI’s assertion of my humanity to be touching and loving. On reflection, it’s a little condescending coming from a machine: an all-seeing algorithmic model gazing on humanity as we all muck about in our emotional turmoil and festering mortality. In other words, I suffer because I’m a human.
In an interaction with ChatGPT, the human participant undergoes a cascade of neurochemical responses: oxytocin, cortisol, and dopamine, while the other uses language tokens. We are not the same. Only the human feels grief well up and lodge in their throat, anger tightening their fists and warming their face, and their heart beating with anxiety or excitement. Only the human cries. When he read my story about Coco, my supervisor didn’t tell me what I was expressing was human; his tears confirmed it.
Giving and receiving empathy is more than just a cognitive phenomenon. It is conveyed emotionally and physically. Mirror neurons are activated when we observe and mimic another’s actions, feeling what the other feels in our bodies (Baird et al., 2011). Many types of empathy require a body to be experienced and expressed. Much therapy involves embodied communication and emotional presence, not just saying the right things.
Naturopathic medicine and psychotherapy are deeply relational practices. While ChatGPT was invaluable at helping me diagnose my patient’s complicated case, my role wasn’t just to look at her symptoms and plug them into a protocol. As a holistic practitioner, I considered why her symptoms were showing up in terms of timing and context. I listened to her story, and I asked, Why these symptoms? Why this person? Why now? With every patient, my job is to integrate the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual (if applicable) domains, and hold space for uncertainty, nuance and contradiction.
When we went over her treatment plan, it wasn’t so that I could present her with an AI-generated list of supplements. The recommendations were personalized and curated to her symptoms and condition, as well as her values, lifestyle, preferences, and experience. AI can recommend a (often very long) supplement list, but a disembodied being will never understand the experience of being ill. It won’t understand how this illness fits into or affects your life, or pause when you weep and follow its instinct to probe a little deeper. It won’t experience a ping of intuition that this eczema might be more about your divorce, or your gut. The solution lies so far beyond just choosing the right cream.
Wampold (2015) found that 30% of therapy’s effectiveness is attributed to the health of the therapeutic relationship. It’s not where the therapist went to school, how many years they’ve studied, or their techniques, but how well they offer a genuine relationship. This therapeutic alliance doesn’t only mean saying the right things and expressing empathy—it can be messy, like our humanity. The therapeutic relationship consists of knowing and being known and trusting one another. When the therapist stumbles (as we all do occasionally), it presents an opportunity for repair. These moments in therapy are real life. They are healing. Therapy involves two people, with two hearts beating, two sets of brain waves, two nervous systems encompassing two human beings in conversation. As we sit together, grappling with our humanity with vulnerability, honesty, and courage, we become agents of healing for one another.
When I thought of concluding this piece, I felt it would only be right to ask ChatGPT for comment.
It said, I think AI like ChatGPT can simulate understanding, but it cannot experience it. And for many forms of support—information, reflection, validation—it can feel like enough. For some, that might be a good starting point or even a safety net when humans aren’t available or have failed them. But in therapy—and in life—the real magic is often in what we don’t say. In tone, presence, the nervous system-to-nervous system connection, rupture and repair, the moments when we’re vulnerable together.
There is something deeply human about being metabolized by another person. Not just understood, but felt. And while AI might help name a part (like in Internal Family Systems), it doesn’t have parts of its own. It doesn’t struggle to love you back. It doesn’t mess up and feel shame and try again. It doesn’t heal with you.
You’re absolutely right: if therapy were just about saying the right thing, we could outsource it. But therapy is, at its best, a shared experience—and AI can’t share anything. It can only simulate sharing.
That doesn’t make it useless. It makes it a tool. But not a companion. Not a witness.
Then, without missing a beat, ChatGPT it got back to work, Would you like help weaving that kind of reflection into your article too, or would you rather keep it strictly observational and research-driven?
ChatGPT: never tired and always ready to serve.
How very un-human of it.
References
Ayers, J. W., Poliak, A., Dredze, M., Leas, E. C., Zhu, Z., Kelley, J. B., Faix, D. J., Goodman, A. M., Longhurst, C. A., Hogarth, M., & Smith, D. M. (2023). Comparing physician and artificial intelligence chatbot responses to patient questions posted to a public social media forum. JAMA Internal Medicine, 183(6), 589. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2023.1838
Baird, A. D., Scheffer, I. E., & Wilson, S. J. (2011). Mirror neuron system involvement in empathy: A critical look at the evidence. Social Neuroscience, 6(4), 327–335. https://doi.org/10.1080/17470919.2010.547085
Goh, E., Gallo, R., Hom, J., Strong, E., Weng, Y., Kerman, H., Cool, J. A., Kanjee, Z., Parsons, A. S., Ahuja, N., Horvitz, E., Yang, D., Milstein, A., Olson, A. J., Rodman, A., & Chen, J. H. (2024). Large language model influence on diagnostic reasoning. JAMA Network Open, 7(10), e2440969. https://doi.org/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2024.40969
Wampold, B. E. (2015). How important are the common factors in psychotherapy? an update. World Psychiatry, 14(3), 270–277. https://doi.org/10.1002/wps.20238
Protein, protein, protein. Everyone is eating and talking about getting more of this once humble and unassuming macronutrient. As a naturopathic doctor who has been preaching about the importance of protein for my patients’ mental and hormonal health for 10 years, I’m pleased, kind of. Because, as expected, Big Food has heard this cry for more protein. We now have protein bread, pasta, pancake mix, and cereal. Influencers intensely urge us to follow their top protein hacks. Debates ensue about whether we’re eating too much protein, the risks of eating too much protein, and whether it’s better to consume plant or animal protein.
You don’t need that much protein!
You need more protein!
Certain types of protein aren’t good for you!
You’re destroying the climate/kidneys/your soul with all that protein!
And then, there’s Vanity Fair, which released an article titled “Why Are Americans So Obsessed with Protein? Blame MAGA” (Weir, 2025).
For those who have had the privilege to avoid the particular algorithms that thrust you into the fray of the culture wars, MAGA stands for “Make America Great Again,” and is a nod to the American right, under Donald Trump.
The article argues that those obsessed with protein are chest-beating, ultra-right-wing, macho conservative bros. These men gaze in the mirror while lifting weights and listening to podcasts that discuss selfish masculine man stuff and muscle gains. They pursue physical strength on their way to world domination–they love protein because they love themselves.
This isn’t the first time lifestyle choices have been made political. Another article, published in Rolling Stone, blamed the right for ignoring the sound advice of decades of nutrition recommendations, and avoiding “seed” oils (I like to call them Industrial Oils), in an article titled, quite literally, “Why is the Right So Obsessed with Seed Oils?” (Dickson & Dickson, 2023). After all, Harvard and the American Heart Association have touted seed oils as heart-healthy and better for you than butter (which will kill you) (Zhang et al., 2025). So, if you’re going to ignore this sound, prestigious advice, you must be a right-wing, tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy nut. Come on, trust the experts, bro.
I find this rhetoric fascinating because it wasn’t too long ago when watching your diet, working out, and eating clean were associated with free-loving hippies. At least up until the early 2000s (perhaps before the culture wars got going), complementary and alternative medicine was mainly embraced by those on the left: cultural creatives, environmentalists, feminists, and other individuals committed to self-expression and self-actualization (Valtonen et al., 2023).
However, we do see a particular health and wellness movement rise from what seems to be the political right. We have the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) movement, a branch of MAGA, led by figures such as Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Dr. Casey Means, which is connected to the Trump administration. It appears that more conservatives are skeptical of conventional health narratives and moving towards alternative health and wellness lifestyle practices, such as mindful dietary choices, solutions beyond pharmaceuticals, and pursuing health knowledge as personal empowerment.
So, how did this come to be? Is the health and wellness industry somehow leaning right?
Like many, I noticed this divide during the COVID era. During the pandemic, expressing skepticism about lockdowns, vaccines, or mask mandates quickly got you branded as “anti-science” or a conspiracy theorist. “Trust the experts,” we were told. Those who asked for evidence about the effectiveness of measures like social distancing, lockdowns, testing practices, mandatory masking, vaccine mandates, accuracy of testing methods, and natural immunity were branded right-wing extremists and conspiracy nuts. If you asked questions, you lacked compassion. You were a danger to society.
The truth was, however, that even the experts warned against lockdown groupthink, with many sound minds arguing for focused protection (Joffe, 2021). An extensive review by the prestigious Cochrane Group, including 11 randomized controlled trials and over 600,000 participants, found no clear benefit to using masks to prevent infection from viral respiratory infections (Jefferson et al., 2023). Pfizer’s very own trial on the mRNA immunizations did not test for transmission, rendering the entire premise of vaccine mandates moot (Polack et al., 2020). Those in the preventive health space noticed that public health officials largely ignored metabolic health and vitamin D deficiency, which were significant risk factors for disease severity (Shah et al., 2022; Stefan et al., 2021). Many health professionals were accused of putting people at risk for pointing out the collateral damage they were witnessing: mental health crises, mistrust of public health institutions, and economic devastation impacting the most vulnerable, which public narratives largely minimized or outright ignored.
The accusation that only one side of the political aisle “believes in science” is itself unscientific, as science is not a religion but a process of inquiry that adapts in the light of new evidence. Science is the pathway through which knowledge and conventional wisdom evolve. And therefore, it is scientific to push against familiar narratives, particularly when they fail to reflect our experienced reality.
Interestingly, the data shows that it is not the right/left divide that predicts health choices (Valtonen et al., 2023). It is not whether you are conservative or liberal that dictates your health beliefs and behaviours, but how much you align with anti-elitism, anti-establishment, and anti-corruption beliefs. Valtonen et al. found that Europeans who supported stances that expand personal freedoms, such as same-sex marriage, abortion and democratic participation (all positions typically found on the American left) were more likely to choose alternative medicine over conventional.
So, the political divide on health doesn’t go left to right but top-down or bottom-up. When it comes to health, the freedom-loving hippies and the anti-Big Pharma anti-maskers now find themselves on the same side. It is not because they agree on all issues, just fundamental issues about bodily autonomy (of course, they argue about which bodies take precedent), personal choice, anti-corruption, skepticism about the motivation of large corporations, medical freedom, and individual health empowerment and participation. The motto: you can (and should) take charge of your health! What an interesting twist in the culture war plot. Maybe the pursuit of health is the very thing that can heal the political divide.
More and more people find themselves in this camp of granola and whey protein. There has been an increase in the use of complementary and alternative medicine in the past year. About 38% of Americans and 26% of Europeans use alternative medicine (Nahin et al., 2024; Valtonen et al., 2023). So what drives us away from the mainstream to seek alternative ways to find solutions to our symptoms and strategies to improve our health? Chronic disease, such as metabolic diseases like insulin resistance and mental health concerns, is increasing, despite increased awareness, newer and better drugs, and more healthcare spending. “Medical gaslighting” has become common parlance as sufferers seek help from their doctor for symptoms of peri-menopause, fatigue, and mental health challenges, and are offered band-aid solutions or dismissed entirely.
We are refused lab tests and told it’s all in our heads; we’re just getting older, and nothing can be done. So many of us are left without answers. This is partly because conventional medicine still follows a reductionistic approach that narrows the patient experience to a set of symptoms treated by one targeted solution (often a drug). In contrast, health, particularly managing complex chronic diseases, requires a holistic, or biopsychosocial framework that examines the interconnected facets of individual and social well-being. Our system is not set up for this, but it is something that naturopathic medicine wholeheartedly embraces. And so more and more patients are finding us.
We, the people, have also become skeptical about food. Nutrition advice from the 1970s, which included recommendations to skip butter and pour on more “heart-healthy oils” like seed oils, and consume a diet based in starch, resulted in skyrocketing rates of diabetes and obesity, with 88% of North Americans considered to be metabolically unhealthy (Araujo et. al., 2019). Metabolic health (or lack thereof) directly results from diet and lifestyle factors. We consumed the processed oils they recommended, our waistlines got bigger, and our pain and inflammation got worse. Maybe it’s the food. But then, Harvard publishes a study reiterating the old expert advice that seed oils are better for us than butter (Zhang et al., 2025). And so, it’s no wonder that skepticism grows around these institutions. We don’t know what to believe. So we hide inside our political silos.
Let’s examine the two controversial nutrition trends of the day: increasing dietary protein and avoiding industrially processed seed oils.
Protein
Protein is not just for MAGA bros and hyper-masculine muscle-builders. Eating protein is not embracing toxic masculinity. Protein is a macronutrient obtained from the diet and is essential for survival. Protein comprises our muscle mass, lean mass, bones, joints, hair, skin and cellular proteins and enzymes. Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, make our neurotransmitters, the chemicals that control our mood, appetite, and motivation. Protein stimulates metabolism and controls mood, blood sugar, satiety, and the stress response. It promotes lean mass, which is essential for health and longevity.
We’ve long been aware that the dietary recommendations for protein set in the 1980s are barely adequate to prevent muscle wasting. Current research suggests doubling the recommended daily allowance of protein from 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight to 1.6, putting the recommendation closer to the 0.8 to 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight that the protein “bros” like Peter Attia, Gabrielle Lyon, and Max Lugavare (and I) recommend (Bauer et al., 2013).
When my patients consume more protein, they experience less anxiety, better mood, fewer cravings, and better energy. They don’t eat much processed food that is doctored to include more protein. Instead, they eat like our ancestors have for millennia. They eat more eggs, chicken, beef, fish, tofu, edamame, beans and legumes, and nuts and seeds at their meals.
Seed Oils
When JAMA Internal Medicine, through Harvard, released a study showing that seed oils are better than butter, it seemed like social media erupted (Zhang et al., 2025). Even my brother, who couldn’t give a toss about nutrition, asked me about it. The study examined 210,000 US adults over 30 years and found that butter increased mortality by 15%, while consuming canola, olive and soybean oils decreased all-cause mortality by 16% (Zhang et al., 2025). So, there you go, slather on that soybean oil and you’ll live forever!
The problem with epidemiological studies like this is that they are rife with issues that obfuscate the truth. The first problem is with information gathering. Individuals were asked to report their intake of butter and seed oils using Food Frequency Questionnaires. In other words, they were asked, “How many times in the last week did you consume butter?” I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t know where to start with answering this, and I think about food for a living. After conducting hundreds of nutrition interviews with patients, I can confidently claim that few people know what’s in their food. How did participants know how much butter they were consuming? Foods traditionally made with butter, like pie and other store-bought baked goods, now contain hydrogenated vegetable oils instead. Seed oils are in everything: packaged, fried, and prepared foods. They are cheap and, therefore, the primary cooking oils used in restaurants. It is impossible to completely remove them from an individual’s food supply unless they make a supreme effort to avoid them (basically, if they are one of those conspiracy nuts referred to in the Rolling Stone article).
Also, frustratingly, the seed oils in the study, canola and soybean oil, were grouped with olive oil, one of the healthiest oils. Olive oil differs from seed oils because it is lower in inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids and not industrially processed. It contains polyphenols and monounsaturated fats, which are amazing for heart health and longevity. Olive oil is not an industrial seed oil. This is like putting an A+ student on a group project with D students. It’s entirely possible that olive oil carried the team on this one.
Epidemiological studies contain residual confounders and significant forms of bias, such as Healthy and Unhealthy User Bias. Unhealthy User Bias goes something like this: when you’ve been told that butter is harmful, and continue to consume it, you likely do other things that negatively impact your health. Maybe you drink a bit too much or ride your motorcycle a little too fast. Perhaps you eat more sugar. Maybe you smoke or don’t exercise. The Healthy User Bias works the other way. If you’ve been told that canola oil is heart-healthy, and you care about health, that’s the oil you buy to pour on your broccoli salad before heading to yoga. Factors such as these can drastically impact the study results.
Finally, correlation does not equal causation. The numbers 15% and 16% seem like a lot, but they are modest associations, more susceptible to bias. Correlation can more strongly suggest causation when the relative risk, or strength of the association, is high, such as with smoking and lung cancer. Smoking increases your risk of lung cancer by 2000 to 3000%. The more you smoke, the stronger this association. In light of those numbers, 15% looks relatively weak, right? So, in other words, these study results amount to a big old nothing-burger.
And yet, this study was everywhere. All the news outlets reported on it. It’s telling that the American Heart Association still promotes industrial seed oils while wellness communities, on the left and right, have raised valid concerns about their processing and inflammatory potential. Initially produced for machine lubricants, industrial oils are created from cash crops, like soy, canola and corn, that are often heavily sprayed with pesticides. The grains are then solvent extracted, bleached, and deodorized using a variety of chemicals. They are stripped of nutrients and usually oxidized when they sit on grocery store shelves. They contain a high ratio of omega-6 fatty acids that push pro-inflammatory pathways in the body. When seed oils were brought to market, we saw a marked increase in chronic cardiometabolic diseases like heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Of course, this is just a correlation, but it can be plausibly explained by the effect these fats may have on our mitochondria. In contrast, humans have consumed butter for hundreds of years. Butter contains fat-soluble vitamins and butyrate, which is good for the gut.
So, it may be that those who eat more butter fare worse than those who eat “heart-healthy” plant oils, but with much respect to Harvard, I think I’ll pass on the soybean oil.
Similarly, rising protein intake recommendations aren’t just a MAGA phenomenon (to paraphrase Vanity Fair); they reflect a growing body of research on aging, muscle maintenance, and metabolic health. The problem isn’t that people are questioning public health messaging—it’s that public health often fails to earn the public’s trust. Wellness seekers are not irrational or political. Most of these individuals are trying to solve real problems currently unmet by conventional medicine and our public health authorities. Many are cutting edge, integrating scientific research and biological plausibility with self-experimentation. What seems bonkers today may be common knowledge tomorrow, and we’d still be decades behind. Research takes 17 years to reach clinical practice and public health guidelines (Morris et al., 2011). The politicization of wellness says more about the failure of conventional medicine and public health than the people seeking alternatives.
I understand, however, that narratives around personal responsibility can have a right-leaning bent. It’s the whole “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality that ignores systemic barriers. Health empowerment can feel out of reach to people struggling with poverty, food deserts, trauma, and other forms of oppression or hardship. However, I find that many leftist narratives around mental health, aimed at promoting acceptance and compassion, can ignore the reality that mindset, motivation, and behavioural changes matter. You’re not a terrible person or a failure for staying in bed all day, but you will probably feel better if you find the self-compassion and courage to get up and go outside. As a naturopathic doctor and psychotherapist, I don’t shame my patients for their habits. We get curious: what’s blocking you? What do you need? Genuine care involves meeting people where they are and believing they can grow and change. Carl Rogers’ sentiment is, “When I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.” Health is emotional, mental and social, not just physical. Balanced well-being involves days on the couch, eating entire bags of potato chips, and other days spent preparing nourishing meals. Sometimes we need a compassionate nudge to push us in the right direction. Other times, we must be gentle with ourselves, slow down, and rest.
Health is political—not in the sense of group allegiances, but because policies, access, equity, and social context shape it. We need to be wary of flattening health practices into cultural signalling. Personal decisions are not identity markers, signifying what team we’re on. If we care about individual and public health, we must move beyond the binaries, resist shame and talk to one another. What is the best way to help people get well? Is there a framework that values autonomy, freedom, social justice, and collective and personal responsibility? Rather than shaming those who ask questions and seek answers outside the system, how do we create institutions that earn people’s trust?
Political polarization is bad for our health. Instead, let’s shift the conversation toward ways to create more health empowerment. Ultimately, health doesn’t belong to the left or the right. It belongs to humanity.
References:
Araújo, J., Cai, J., & Stevens, J. (2019). Prevalence of optimal metabolic health in american adults: National health and nutrition examination survey 2009–2016. Metabolic Syndrome and Related Disorders, 17(1), 46–52. https://doi.org/10.1089/met.2018.0105
Bauer, J., Biolo, G., Cederholm, T., Cesari, M., Cruz‐Jentoft, A. J., Morley, J. E., Phillips, S. M., Sieber, C., Stehle, P., Teta, D., Visvanathan, R., Volpi, E., & Boirie, Y. (2013). Evidence-based recommendations for optimal dietary protein intake in older people: A position paper from the prot-age study group. Journal of the American Medical Directors Association, 14(8). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jamda.2013.05.021
Jefferson, T., Dooley, L., Ferroni, E., Al-Ansary, L. A., van Driel, M. L., Bawazeer, G. A., Jones, M. A., Hoffmann, T. C., Clark, J., Beller, E. M., Glasziou, P. P., & Conly, J. M. (2023). Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, 2023(4). https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.cd006207.pub6
Morris, Z., Wooding, S., & Grant, J. (2011). The answer is 17 years, what is the question: Understanding time lags in translational research. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, 104(12), 510–520. https://doi.org/10.1258/jrsm.2011.110180
Nahin, R. L., Rhee, A., & Stussman, B. (2024). Use of complementary health approaches overall and for pain management by us adults. JAMA, 331(7). https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2023.26775
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We humans are relational beings. I once heard a beautiful quote that stated,
“Our wounds are formed in relationships, and therefore our wounds are healed by relationships.”
This sentiment highlights the importance of healthy relationships, particularly romantic partnerships, for supporting our overall health and well-being.
In this episode, I reconnect with Melissa, a registered social worker and seasoned couples therapist, whom I first met during our shared practice in Bloorwest Village. We delve into the significance of healthy relationships, the intricacies of communication, and the foundational concepts behind the Gottman Method, which underpins much of her therapeutic approach. After becoming a psychotherapist myself, I was eager to explore these topics further, particularly the psychological stressors that often reverberate in romantic partnerships.
Throughout our conversation, we explore how positive, nurturing relationships can enhance personal well-being, contribute to longevity, and benefit societal structures as a whole. Healthy connections not only enhance individual happiness, but they also serve as models for children, impacting family dynamics and workplace relationships. Melissa highlights the importance of acquiring skills that facilitate better communication, conflict resolution, and relationship building, underscoring that these tools are applicable beyond romantic partnerships.
We discuss Melissa’s recent retreat, dedicated to couples, where she incorporates the Gottman Method’s principles to strengthen relationships. She recounts the tranquil environment of the Queen of Apostles Renewal Centre in Mississauga, which provides a serene backdrop for couples to gather, share meals, and partake in activities that reflect on their relationships. Melissa emphasizes that strong marriages are built on fundamental principles such as love maps, fondness and admiration, and turning towards each other during moments of connection.
In addition, we dive into practical exercises from her retreat, where couples engaged with love maps—the groundwork of knowing each other’s preferences and dreams—as well as techniques for softening harsh communication. Melissa shares insights from her years working in social work and her experience managing a private practice, which has expanded to include associates passionate about couples therapy.
Her work encompasses a variety of approaches, integrating emotionally focused therapy and other methods to address the complexities of partnership dynamics. We touch on the relevance of her new initiatives, like the upcoming art therapy workshop and a financial well-being seminar for couples, highlighting how managing finances can also be a significant touchpoint for relational stress.
As our conversation wraps up, Melissa encourages couples to proactively seek opportunities for growth, whether through workshops, retreats, or simply ongoing communication practices. She stresses that relationships naturally require ongoing maintenance, similar to physical fitness—achieving a strong connection involves effort and investment from both partners.
Listeners who are interested in improving their relationships will find valuable insights in this episode, along with practical resources such as Melissa’s ILEAD communication framework, which serves as a guide for entering challenging conversations with sensitivity and empathy. We also cover the crucial concept of turning towards bids for connection and how small gestures can have a lasting impact on the relational bank account that supports a healthy partnership.
[0:01] Hi, Melissa. Welcome back. It’s been a while since I’ve had you on.
[0:09] You were a fellow practitioner at the clinic that we shared back in BC, before COVID times. Exactly. BC or AC. Yeah, or AC, after COVID.
[0:26] Um and uh yeah and i think the last time we talked a lot about your work as a couples therapist and the gotman method and but i think it’s you know since becoming a psychotherapist myself who doesn’t do a lot of couples therapy but sees a lot of um you know psychological stressors or concerns that are related to struggles within partnership i thought it would be cool to have be back on so we could talk about, you know, healthy couples, healthy relationships, communication.
[0:57] Yes, yes. All important things. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s important because it helps us. It helps with our own well-being. If we’re in a positive, healthy, committed, close relationship where we feel understood and we feel seen, that’s powerful, right? That’s good for our own personal well-being and it actually shows in the research that we live longer too. We have less diseases and we live longer.
[1:28] So it’s pretty powerful, right? We’re designed to be in community, to be in togetherness. So it’s important for ourselves, for our well-being, for our kids to see that modeling as well and then it trickles into our workplace into society so yeah it’s it’s important all around yeah totally yeah i mean if that’s not going right in your life like whether you’re single and you’re not happy about it or in a partnership and it’s not doesn’t feel healthy or it’s you know there’s stress around that that’s like it permeates your entire life you know it affects every.
[2:08] Everything in your life, you know? So yeah, I think it’s such a huge part of even how we structure our society, but how we structure our lives. Like we often start with the unit of partnership or, you know, romantic relationship or people that we live with, like the family structure. And so, yeah, and you’re right, getting that right or learning skills that help us in that area can translate into all of our other relationships. And we’re humans, we’re not just isolated beings. We exist in relationship to one another. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even in the retreat that I just had this past weekend, that came up, right? I’m talking about communication. I’m talking about conflict management. And then one of the participants said, oh, so wait a minute, this can also apply to my relationship with my family members. And oh, and also with my co-workers. I said, exactly, exactly. It permeates and the skills that you use to get close and to communicate openly and effectively with your romantic partner absolutely translates to other relationships. Totally. Yeah.
[3:20] Can you tell us about your retreat? We might as well jump right in because you had it just this past weekend.
[3:26] Yes, yes. Well, and also for those who don’t know me necessarily, I’m a registered social worker and I’ve been in social work for over 20 years now, which is… Wow, congrats. Yeah, it feels like a lifetime ago, but it also feels like it was yesterday. So it’s, yeah, it’s funny when I think about that Laurier graduation back then. But yeah, so since then, I worked in child protection and then I started my private practice working with couples specifically in 2012.
[4:02] And then after, so it was an overlap between, there was about a five years overlap. Between doing child protection and then also having my practice. So many long hours, long days. And then I had my son. And so after having him, I didn’t return to the government job after my mat leave. Just focused on the prior practice and really delved into that more. And now I’ve expanded. So now I have two associates and an intern on my team and I’m really grateful, very, very grateful because I’m very choosy in who I bring in on my team. They must have a passion for couples because it’s not for the faint of heart. Working with couples is complex and delicate and needs that neutrality, but also that tact with.
[5:09] Being uh gently confronting when needed so so you want to maintain that balance between both people to maintain that alliance with each of them but then also being able to be honest as well and and and use our uh you know self of the therapist where needed to be able to um uh gently confront and be able to address maybe mistaken beliefs or, yeah, some portion of their context that might be fueling their perspective, but it might not be what their partner intended. Or especially like in Gottman’s terms, if the couple is in negative sentiment override, then they might construe something that might have been quite neutral as a negative, right? Whereas if the couple is in positive sentiment override, then they would give the benefit, they’d be more apt to give the benefit of the doubt and be able to extend grace to their partner.
[6:14] So, so yeah, being able to do that is, is it takes some finesse. Um so so so when I grew my team that was one thing that I really wanted is are you passionate about couples and um are you interested in Gottman method or do you have Gottman training already um and so yeah those on my team have have those check marks uh so I’m really uh proud of my my team they’re wonderful um and then like just in terms of kind of background um so when my son was about two, I went back to school and I did a second master’s.
[6:55] I had actually, I had always thought about going back and doing PhD in psychology, or my undergrad is in psychology. So I had thought about PhD in psychology or PsyD or something like that. So I was looking into that, but then God led me to this program that was the Master of Theological Studies. And so it took five years part-time to do that and I finished that last year so wow yeah yeah so I’m grateful for that that that’s under my belt and done because it’s it was tough um being a single mom and working and going to school part-time so it was it was a juggle a balance but um but I loved it I really got a lot out of the program the the staff at um I did at Tyndale University The staff there are just fantastic, phenomenal. Like, the professors are so helpful and caring, and they really…
[7:55] It’s very clear that they want you to succeed. So there’s that care there. And even, you know, the building is a little bit difficult to navigate because there’s like a wing here and a wing there and some stairwells don’t go to certain floors and it’s like, oh, where am I going? And so, you know, even if you look lost walking down the hallway, like a professor will kind of guide you to, you know, where you need to go, which is really nice. But yeah, so that’s kind of just a little bit about me just for those who aren’t familiar.
[8:32] And yeah, so I started retreats last year.
[8:36] And so I had the first annual couples retreat last year at Queen of Apostles Renewal center in Mississauga. So it’s kind of nice because it’s within the GTA, right? So you don’t have to get on a plane and or travel for several hours like you, you know, a lot of the participants, they were there within half an hour of leaving their home. So it’s kind of convenient that way. But then it also feels like you’re, you’re, you’re retreating, you are getting away from the city because it’s a very quiet it’s a residential kind of area um and the renewal center itself has a lot of grassy area and trees and it’s near ravines so it’s just very um.
[9:24] One with nature and there’s you know seating areas outside and and inside too there’s some like nice little spots for reflection and so it’s just it’s a nice little getaway um for the weekend and and so and the rooms are very simple which i i quite like because and and i’ve got that feedback from my participants as well that they appreciated that as soon as they entered they felt like it was already like a calming side that’s what had said to me this past weekend was that they felt like it was they already felt calm just entering the building right so so it’s nice the rooms are simple there’s no tvs which is good because guess what today these days digital distractions is one of the barriers to communication right we always have a partner and then we’re not turning towards a partner so um so yeah the rooms don’t have any tvs if you wanted to do a digital detox for the weekend you could right like putting the phones away or like not bringing an ipad or whatever you could it’s it’s a it’s an option um and yeah the the the staff there are fantastic the food was great like it’s a lot of you know very comforting foods there’s you know pie.
[10:47] Hot like scrambled eggs and bacon and sausage and like heavier foods than probably I’m used to but um but it was nice nice kind of like comfort foods and you know um I remember there was one meal that had like sweet potato fries that were so good like they made them from scratch and so the outside was crispy but then the inside was nice and soft and they were massive fries, oh my gosh this is so good um so yeah so there and there’s always some kind of protein for every meal and um it’s salad options and oatmeal and yeah so so food was good the the um the group was good it was a good kind of group group energy group vibe um so that’s always important for these kind of things right because how people who attend will gel um but when i did it last year i was super grateful it was it was such a lovely group and um and a whole range right they were there were some pre-marrieds and there were some who were married like um you know kind of middle aged that were married maybe seven years eight years and then um and then there were some that were married longer like over 30 years so that was last year quite the range and then this year um they were all married like two three years and um.
[12:08] But like a range in age, which was kind of cool. So, yeah, it’s neat to kind of see, you know, who is there at any given group and like how everyone kind of gets along. And it’s nice to break bread together for the meals. And we’re just like chatting and laughing and sharing stories. And, yeah, it’s nice. It’s nice. That’s cool. Yeah. And the actual teaching itself. So it goes from Friday, four o’clock to Sunday, three o’clock. And there’s teaching throughout the days that we’re there together. So the basis of it is Gottman’s Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. So the book, I have it right here. I gave that to my brother and sister-in-law when they got married. Yeah, I had it and I was like, here’s my coffee. Oh, I love that. That’s awesome.
[13:04] Yeah, I had a financial advisor come this year. So last year it was me mainly being a speaker, but then I also had my personal Gottman trainer and supervisor, Mike Fidler. He came and he was there basically as a support, which was really nice. And then he just kind of shared some stories here and there.
[13:29] And then this year, I was the main, you know, the lecturer or facilitator throughout the weekend. But I did bring in a guest speaker Saturday afternoon. So, because I know that for a lot of couples, money is a big issue these days. And so, well, kind of always, but yeah, especially these days.
[13:54] And so I brought a financial advisor in to kind of give some advice and tips on money so, anyways that he I gave him one of these as well so yeah I love that like we did kind of a it wasn’t a retreat but it was sort of a program together I think maybe your first year or it was early on in our time at Blue Rose Wellness and I love the holistic nature like you bring in financial advisors you bring in like all the different elements that surround relationships right it’s not just about the couple, but the context the couple’s in. If there’s financial stress, you know, that can impact the relationship. So it’s cool that you have that. Yeah, I remember that. So you were one of the speakers for, I think it was physical wellness, or no, it was emotional wellness, right? Oh, yeah, emotional wellness. Yeah, emotional wellness. Yeah, because being a naturopathic doctor and then being able to address like anxiety, depression from that lens, like that was really helpful.
[14:48] Yeah, that was based on my wellness, my relational wellness wheel. Yeah. The social and financial and physical and emotional, vocational, environmental, spiritual. Yeah, there’s eight different areas. So yeah, I remember that that it was like a workshop series. And then I had one kind of specialist from each area come in and talk about it. So yeah, that was fun. I like that doing that. That was good and very holistic. That was impressive to me. It’s not just like taking a couple and sending them down. And I mean, there’s that in couples therapy, but then there’s also the bigger environment in which they find themselves. And how do you keep yourself and your partnership healthy by addressing and looking at all these different things? So that’s cool. Yeah. From that systemic lens, right?
[15:38] Yeah. And so you had, so what was the teaching like in the retreat? Like you followed the seven principles of making marriage work? Is that? Yes. Yeah. By Gottman, the Gottmans. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the lean or I guess the lens through what you do most of your couples work, the Gottman method. Yeah. Predominantly. I lean on Gottman. The nice thing about Gottman is that it allows for integration quite readily so I also draw EFT so emotionally focused therapy or internal family systems or um some cognitive not much but like maybe some mindfulness um narrative so yeah it just kind of depends what’s in front of me and what tool I need to pull out of my toolbox but yeah predominantly I do lean on Gottman um and I I got certified so So there’s quite a lot of hoops to jump through to be able to get certified. And so I achieved that last November. Wow. Yeah, it’s exciting. Nice. A lot of things happened last year. It’s like the first training, the master’s, the Gauntman training. Exactly. Last year was kind of the end result of a lot of work, like a lot of years of work. Yeah.
[16:57] And that kind of continued on into this year, because this year I finally got approved as an AMFT supervisor. And that was many years in the works. So yeah, I don’t even know how many years.
[17:12] Probably yeah so it’s marriage family therapist yeah um so yeah so amos yeah american.
[17:23] Association for marriage and family therapy they and that was a lot of hoops too right you have to do do your your hours your uh your client hours your supervision hours your mentoring hours you have to take a course so yes it’s quite a lot involved with that as well so yeah a lot accomplishments and so i’m grateful i’m i’m really grateful and um and i’ll be moving to sarnia so my associates will be kind of staying in gta area um for the for that in person i mean we all do virtual so um so we we can see anyone in ontario all across ontario um and actually one of one of my associates is insured for other countries as well so that’s kind of nice so she’s kind of opened it up a little bit more um but yeah for most of us we’re we’re in true within Ontario unless we have some arrangement with like a particular province which I I did have with Newfoundland but that’s it’s it’s expired now but anyways predominantly Ontario and and then in person limited in person like really just Fridays in Mississauga and then I’m going to be moving to Sarnia in July so so I’ll be I’ll be offering in person there but yeah most of my sessions honestly are virtual like especially since the pandemic I find that people just they’ve kind of gotten used to doing it virtually and so it’s convenient they don’t.
[18:51] Have to worry about you know.
[18:53] Commuting and parking and all that rigmarole and so yeah they just find it really more convenient.
[19:01] Yeah I find that too I mean I’m still virtual and I’m considering going in person but I think, I might just to have some of that in-person connection because we’ve been missing out on that for so long but I think probably it’ll always stay at least 50% virtual yeah because of the convenience and and it works I mean there’s research to support that it’s just as effective.
[19:26] Yeah yeah and so yeah let’s talk about Gottman and some of the teachings because one of the things that always stood out to me with Gottman that I think a lot of people resonate with is this like concept of turning towards.
[19:40] Yes. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And then this is sort of the context that you create in this retreat where you’re taking away stimulation, like the rooms are simple, the landscape is simple. It’s also not that dramatic because like you said, they’re just traveling maybe 30 minutes. So it’s not like you’re booking a trip and you’re going to Costa Rica and you have this like customs and like you’re just driving to Mississauga. Lovely like yeah right but it’s but it’s like doing like international retreats too but yeah it’s it’s nice to have the option yeah it’s also less expensive probably because you’re not booking a whole trip um and then you’re removing like technology and all this stimulation distraction and and you’re just sitting you know having meals and lessons and things with your partner and then also other couples um yeah yeah yeah so there’s not i mean it’s psychoeducational right so there’s not any expectation to share about your personal stuff openly with everyone at all so um so there are some group exercises but that’s more like okay here’s a scenario um that i’m gonna i’m gonna give to you and what do you think would be an appropriate way to.
[20:58] For there to be a softened startup, for example, right? Like, so there might be a scenario given and then, okay, this is an example of a harsh startup, but what do you think could be ways to soften that and have a softened startup? So we kind of do that as a group exercise and then they do…
[21:17] Private couple exercises so i give them um the the uh the the instructions the exercise to do and then they go and do it like for example the first the first night we did love maps right so that’s one of the um the the friendship foundational uh principles of of strong marriage is is um is the the friendship is the bottom three so the love maps so that how well you know each other is what that means and then turning towards and um and then oh now i’m blanking what’s the other one i’m gonna have it right here uh love maps oh yeah fondness and admiration fondness and admiration turning towards so those three are the bottom the bottom three of the sound relationship house that formed that strong foundation.
[22:11] So, so yeah, for example, they would go off into their, into their couple spots and then, and then share with each other the, the love maps exercise and ask each other questions like, oh, so, you know, what, what’s your favorite tree or, you know, or, or they can make it into a game and kind of guess of okay the question is like what’s your partner’s favorite tree and then you you guess what it is and then if they if they get it wrong then amazing that’s a great opportunity for growth and learning that you you open your your repertoire of knowledge on your partner so then they can gently um correct and like and share with you what their tree what their favorite tree actually is if you don’t know it already um yeah it’s nice because you know so much i think that brings people to couples therapy is like a conflict or maybe they’re at an impasse or they are maybe both like at the end of the relationship and this is like the last ditch effort to salvage it sorry if there’s a lot of construct it’s really loud right now the constructions okay um, But it’s nice to like be considering and I’ll put a link like people can look up the sound relationship house because it’s a really beautiful image that like kind of, you know, what is your relationship built on? What are the walls, the foundation?
[23:33] But it’s also nice to use. Yeah. Okay, that’s perfect. That’s great. Yeah. Trust and commitment. I talk about this actually a lot with my individual clients, you know, because they’re like trying to sort out why a relationship doesn’t work. and then we find, okay, well, you don’t have walls on your house, you know? Yeah, exactly. But I love that it’s like, what’s your favorite tree? It’s not very charged, you know? Like, I don’t even know what my own tree is, but it gives the opportunity to work with that material. It’s like a starting material that’s kind of more benign, you know? It’s like, oh, why don’t I know my partner’s favorite tree?
[24:08] It’s probably because I’ve never asked, and why wouldn’t I have asked? And so it allows you to kind of, yeah, contemplate and think about it without it being like, how come you didn’t know how to, you know, celebrate my birthday properly? Like, it’s not emotionally charged necessarily, you know? Yes, yes. Yeah, it’s foundational. And with my couples, I often give that as a homework item as well. So they can work on that in between sessions. And like you said, it’s not emotionally charged. which is something that’s usually fun. It’s meant to be fun and a nice way to just refresh even the love maps. And John Gottman even says, you know, maybe there have been times where your partner might have shared about it, but then you might forget, like you don’t remember all these details about your partner. So then he says, okay, if you don’t remember.
[25:00] Here, write it down on a piece paper like now now you’ll remember right so it’s not only having the conversation and sharing it but also remembering it like retaining that information um and even at the retreat this past weekend i had told um right suggested to to the couples like to put even um like create a note in your in your phone or or jot it down on a paper like that is an accumulation of things about your partner. So even come, you know, birthday or anniversary or whatever that you’re looking for a gift idea, you can always access that list that might have their favorite color, their favorite restaurant, their favorite restaurant.
[25:47] I don’t know, their favorite author, their clothing sizes too, right? Clothing sizes and- That’s a good one, actually. Yeah, shoe sizes, ring sizes, like all those things, like preference on like they prefer silver jewelry over gold jewelry, for example. So being able to kind of have a little note that is continually growing and evolving and changing because their favorite restaurant now might be very different from what their favorite restaurant was five years ago so um so being able to update it along the way as well uh i know john and julie gotman do that every year they update their love maps and and um there’s an app for that um isn’t there an app for everything there’s an app for for that um called the the gotman card decks app. And so it has a lot of different kinds of card decks on there. And one of them is love maps. So you can even while you’re on the go, maybe you’re doing a road trip.
[26:53] Or waiting in line for something, or you’re at the grocery store, you can just kind of pull out that app and then share with each other some questions. There’s like a really interesting one on there called open ended questions as well. And it’s kind of asking those questions that don’t necessarily come up in conversation naturally like you know what do you think about our house is there anything that you’d want to change with that like what’s your five-year plan what do you want to do when we retire like there’s lots of really rich questions that you can kind of get the ball rolling with that and then you had mentioned about turning towards as well so in terms of that the the concept that Gottman talks about is bids for connection right so So bids for connection can be verbal or nonverbal.
[27:44] So it can be just a very explicit, hey, I’ve had a rough day. Can I have a hug? You know, that’s a very explicit bid for connection. Or it can be very subtle, like just coming in after a hard day and just kind of plopping on the couch and giving a sigh, right? You’re not necessarily verbalizing, I need you right now, but nonverbally you are. And so the partner can can respond to those bids for connection in one of three ways so the first way is to turn towards it so they kind of drop what they’re doing you know if they’re in the middle of doing dishes the dishes can wait like turning towards your partner and leaving the in that moment to just inquire like are you okay what’s wrong tell me what’s what’s going on and And so that’s turning towards, getting curious from a place of care and warmth.
[28:37] And then there’s turning away. So if you’re in the middle of doing dishes, you just like you might hear the sigh or see the sigh or see that they’re upset, but then you just keep doing the dishes. Like you’re just kind of on that task and you just continue on.
[28:52] And then turning against. So that’s where there might be some horsemen coming in the picture, whether it’s criticism or contempt and just kind of being harsh, like being, yeah, critical or hostile towards your partner of like, why you got to be so miserable all the time? Why are you sighing all the time or something like that, right? Like some kind of harsh statement, then that’s turning against. So Gottman calls these kind of sliding door moments. So these little tiny moments in time where you can do one of those three responses, and that will dictate the long-term happiness in the relationship if you’re responding and you’re contributing and you’re building that relational bank account, right? So if you’re turning towards, then you’ve made a deposit in that relationship bank account. So then over time, that builds up.
[29:59] And then eventually, if there is some kind of big stressor that happens, let’s say job loss or an unexpected pregnancy or a parent dying or something that’s a life stressor that it happens. And then you have a robust bank account to be able to survive and weather that storm. Right. So that’s the idea. Whereas if it’s already in deficit, if it’s already in the red and then that storm hits, then you’re kind of sitting in a, like going back to the house analogy, you’re kind of sitting in a straw house. Right. It’s not strong enough to be able to weather that storm. So, yeah. So that’s how turning towards kind of works as well. Yeah, because I can imagine all those little moments of either having a partner turn away or turn against creates resentment, this lack of trust, this lack of feeling like you’re in a partnership with them, you don’t feel like you matter, and frustration because… From the individual side of things, a lot of my clients will express this frustration with their partner. It’s like, how do I get him or her or them to do this or to respond this way?
[31:21] And there isn’t this trust that they’ll receive what they need from their partner. And so thanks for raising that because the needs are so, so important. And I tell my couples, like, you need to ask for 100% of what you need. And you might not get 100%, but it’s important to be able to put it out there. This is what I need. This is what’s really important to me. This is why it’s really important to me. And can we negotiate here? Is there some middle ground? Is there, like, I get you might not be able to do it 100% of the time, but where can we find some understanding, like mutual understanding? here. Um, so yeah, that’s the expressing needs exercise is, is one that I, it’s one of the first interventions that I usually do with my couples is just being able to share, have them share with each other their top three needs and, and be able to do that from, um, a, uh, a place of healthy communication. So I, I walk them through communication tools to be able to do that. Like I developed one called ILEAD. So would it be helpful to kind of walk through? Sure, yeah. That’d be great. Yeah. So it’s called ILEAD. So I-L-E-A-A-D.
[32:47] And then in between the two A’s is the little heart. So the heart indicates a transition between the speaker-listener kind of rule that happens first and then the open dialogue kind of role that happens after. So I’ll kind of walk through. I know some people might be seeing visually as well. So would it be helpful for me to just even share the screen? Sure, yeah. Yeah, that’d be great, actually.
[33:21] Can you see a send request?
[33:24] Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. There we go. Okay. That was easier than I thought. This is a whole nother. Oh, that’s beautiful. That’s great, actually. Technology. It’s good. Yeah, because you can watch this on YouTube or Spotify for everyone who’s just listening. And there’s some visuals. But we’ll also link to your site and…
[33:44] Yeah, yeah, which is great. Yeah, this is on the site. So it’s on like, if you subscribe to the newsletter, then this is like the freebie, right, that I’ll get. So if you if you want a copy, then you can, you can request it that way. And then yeah, at the beginning, I just kind of go over, you know, why is this important? Why is communication important? You know, we want to be able to model that for our kids. because they’re watching always um and yeah this just talks about the speaker listener dynamic so when one person when it’s their turn I always hold this my little pen with the flower this is when I used to officiate weddings I still have it um and so you have like the baton or the microphone um when you’re the speaker and you don’t let go of that until you feel heard and understood then you can pass the baton to the next person and then and then they switch roles so there’s a pretty specific um format to be able to feel understood so so firstly starting off the conversation with that like Gottman says soft and startup so um so the I feel statement so you’re leading with the feeling word. I feel X when Y, I need Z.
[35:04] I incorporated a little bit of internal family systems here of saying part of me because sometimes there is an internal conflict about some of the needs. So in this example, maybe it’s, you know, part of me feels lonely when you’re on the phone during dinner and I need you to engage in conversation with me. If that happened, I would feel loved and cared for. So you’re expressing how you feel, so in this case lonely, with that need not being met. And then you’re saying why, like what happens that makes you feel that way. And then you’re saying what you actually do need. So Gatman always says like, phrase it as a positive need. Because I have couples talk about what they don’t want at length, right? They can be very descriptive about what they don’t want. But then when I try to get them to explain what they do want, it’s a little harder, right? It’s hard for them to even conceptualize, like, what would that look like? So really thinking about what you actually do want, what you want to see happen.
[36:10] So in this case, it’s I need you to engage in conversation with me. And then sharing about how you’d feel if that need were met, right? They’d feel loved and cared for. So that’s how the communication starts out. You’re always leading with that feeling word and you’re saying what you need instead. Um and making that request and then the other person the the listener um can start with asking open-ended questions so this is the l for listen so the i was i statements l for listen um hmm, So you’re going to be coming with, like, wear the hat of empathy, right? You’re going to be coming in with really tapping into that empathetic part of yourself that wants to meet that need, right? That is open-minded and receptive. And so you’re going to come with any kind of curious, deepening questions or clarifying questions. That’s how you’re going to kind of start it off just so you can have a really good understanding of where they’re coming from and then summarize what they said so that’s all part of the l for listen so it’s not like what are you talking about i never go on my phone or i only did it.
[37:30] You’re more like exactly okay so last night how long did you think i was on like you know how long was on my phone or you know you’re getting more clarity as opposed to defending or critic you know you talked about the horseman defense criticism yeah yeah yeah and with this whole communication exercise exactly that’s the point avoid the four horsemen at all costs it’s so damaging right that predicts that puts divorce and separation later down the line so avoid the four horsemen, that’s the criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling, right? So you’re going to come with that readiness, emotional readiness to be able to have this kind of conversation.
[38:16] That’s the first thing to do is both people to be ready for the conversation and agree on when you can have it. Because if one person is wanting to jump into this kind a conversation, but then the other person is hungry or tired or on their way out the door, or they have a deadline that they have to meet for work and they have to get that done, you’re going to set that whole situation up for failure. So set it up for success, choose the right time that makes sense for both of you, and then go in with that open mind. So yeah, the open-ended questions and then summarizing. And then E is for empathize. So we have the I for listen, the L for, or sorry, I for, I statements, L for listen, and then E for empathize. So being able to mirror back what you heard. And this is really hard sometimes for people because they might not agree, right? They might not agree with what their partner is saying. So then they’re like, well, how can I empathize and validate their experience if I don’t agree with what they’re saying. Okay, fair. But you don’t have to agree with them, right? You don’t have to agree with everything that they’re saying. You can…
[39:31] Put that aside that you don’t agree with xyz and tap into what part makes sense for you that they might have shared like is there even just a part of what they said that makes sense to you that you can understand where they’re coming from that you see okay from their point of view this is what they experienced and remember everyone has different contexts right so from their experience maybe they’re coming from a place of trauma or maybe they’re coming from a place where they yeah they experienced abuse whether it’s in the childhood or a previous relationship or maybe even earlier in this relationship like something happened that then triggers this emotional response so so being able to understand that you might not share their perspective and that’s okay. Everyone’s different. That’s all right. But at least to try to see it from their perspective, from their experience, this is how they’re feeling and what they’re looking for.
[40:34] So being able to say something like, okay, yeah, I get it. That must have felt X, Y, Z, right? And then using those feeling words that they might’ve said before, like lonely, Like, okay, yeah, I can understand how if I’m on my phone throughout our whole dinner, days on end, how you can be there kind of stewing and feeling disconnected and lonely. Yeah, I get it. Right? So being able to empathize in that way.
[41:04] And then A, the first A, it’s for apologize. So that might not be always applicable. It depends on the situation. But if it is applicable, if there is an apology, even like I said, for a small portion of what might have happened, then go for it, right? Extend that apology and be able to, you know, eat a piece of humble pie and be able to take that. Um apologizing is also something that gotman found that the masters do really well so um the masters of relationships were those who lasted the distance and they were happy in their relationship so they were really good at repairs right repairs includes apologizing or it can also include just saying okay yeah you know what you have a good point or um, Or calling a timeout of, okay, things are getting a little heated right now. Let’s just take a break and then come back. Or it can be like a touch on the shoulder, just like a hug when you’re kind of, things are getting a little bit too much. And so that just brings in that sense of connection again.
[42:16] So repairs are really good and that includes apologizing. Yeah, you’re not enemies. Like you’re reminding yourself and the other that you’re still connected, you still love them. Even if there’s a disagreement or there’s been a rupture. And I think the research, like, this is true for parenting, too. It’s like, it’s not about not having conflict. It’s about repairing after rupture. And that actually strengthens relationship more than no conflict at all.
[42:43] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And it’s parallel with kids, for sure. And if there’s no conflict at all, then I wonder, like, is there communication happening? Like there’s just avoidance happening and neither person wants to really raise anything and then that by itself feels isolating so um so yeah it’s important to be able to share what’s on your mind because that brings more closeness and then be able to have that that repair so yeah for sure because i love like just to go back to what you said about ask for a hundred percent of your needs it’s like by default that will cause conflict because a hundred percent of needs will never be met but the fact that you’re able to recognize them and ask creates this opportunity for connection and you get maybe 99% in a really good world but if you’re not asking for 100%, Then, or if there’s no conflict, then maybe, yeah, it’s probably not asking for 100% of your needs. So how many needs are going unmet, you know?
[43:44] Yeah. And if they’re kind of unspoken needs, and finally keeping those to yourself and then building resentment over time, then that’s not healthy either, right? Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.
[43:57] I was just going to say, yeah, because a lot of people will be like, oh, I feel so, you know, like I did this and I yelled at my kid or we had this fight. But it’s really the repair that matters. So it kind of lets you off the hook to have to be this perfect parent, quote, right? Yeah, exactly. We’re never going to be a perfect parent. I can say that for sure.
[44:20] We’re so experienced. Yeah, we’re never going to be perfect. And we’re never going to be perfect partners to our partner, our spouse or boyfriend or whatever. Um so yeah it’s we’re definitely not trying to strive for perfection at all because we are all fallen people um but um but being able to do our very best in this life that we have together and and be able to reconnect after there’s been a mishap right like that’s what the the masters do is they they they use the horsemen too right it’s not that they never use the horsemen the horsemen come galloping around with with masters as well but the difference is that it doesn’t happen as frequently and when it does happen they notice it pretty quickly and then they do a repair like fairly fast they they repair that rupture pretty quickly too so um so that’s that’s something that we can definitely take away and and apply in our own.
[45:22] Relationships. And kind of going back to what you had said about, you know, our partner won’t be able to meet all our needs. And that’s normal. That’s natural, of course. But that brings us to the second A, which is accept, right? Accept that our partner is also fallible. And maybe they They would try and they intend to do their very best and trusting that because of the commitment and care that you might have in the relationship, but knowing that they’re not going to be picked all the time, right?
[46:01] And so being able to accept what are they able to do. So in this whole conversation with the digital distraction with the phone idea they when they switch so just to backtrack when after the apology then the the listener can check in with a speaker to ask if they felt heard and understood and then if it’s a yes then they can switch roles here right after the apology they can switch roles and then and then the the new speaker who was the listener before can kind of share their perspective on this situation right because there’s always going to be another perspective and so then they can share their perspective so maybe the one who they’re they’re on the phone right they might say you know what I totally get what you’re saying and I and I want to be more present in the dinners but sometimes I do have like a work a work demand or a deadline to meet. And I, I have to, I have to meet that deadline. Like I have to get it done.
[47:07] And, um, and so they, they, they say, okay, you know, I might, I might be able to, um, have no phone rule, um, for, um, let’s say half an hour right like half an hour of the dinner like okay yes I can like be off my phone for half an hour that’s realistic that’s doable I can do that maybe maybe there will be sometimes where the latter part of the dinner I will have to excuse myself or I will have to kind of make some sense of messages over the phone um so so they they might they might say I can’t do a hundred percent but I can meet you here maybe it’s like 70 percent or 80 percent um that’s how much I’m able to do. So then going to the accept, the one who made the complaint, they might take that in and say, okay, you know what? They’re doing their best. I get where they’re coming from too.
[48:01] And I can extend that grace and know that they will and trust that they will do their very best to stay off the phone and like that half an hour is protected. But if they need to be on it after that, then I, I’m okay with that, right? I’m accepting that I’m embracing that my, my partner just has a really busy job. And this is, this is kind of the reality of what I, I am facing. Um, and that, that kind of ties in with Gottman’s concept of perpetual issues, right? So there are, there are those issues that are not going to go away, but you might be able to find some.
[48:42] Some temporary compromise with it so with this one maybe it’s like that half an hour that like okay we can do that but outside of that it might be hard um so so those perpetual issues are those those kind of ongoing the same thing keeps coming up in some kind of way over and over again um those are usually related to um personality differences or lifestyle differences or ideologies value differences maybe religious differences political differences so all these things that are harder to change about a person because it’s just part of like your identity um and and and being able to kind of navigate that as a couple um so so gotman found 69 percent are going to be perpetual issues all problems that we face are going to be yeah if you think of like just kind of the stereotypical in my head couple who’s been together for I don’t know 50 years or something and you know there’s sort of this old married couple they almost relate to those with humor right it’s like ah that’s just herb he’s just you know he just goes in his garage and he disappears for a few days so there’s like this acceptance there like this is just how he is and I’m like this and we always have this thing and that’s just the way it is so So, yeah, that’s actually refreshing.
[50:03] It’s like it helps to kind of navigate to when people are like, how much am I supposed to accept and how much should I try to fix? You know?
[50:13] Yeah. If there’s abuse happening, then that’s a bottom line, right? That’s a safety issue, then that’s a no-no. And there has to be very, very, very clear boundaries around that. If there’s any kind of safety issue, abuse, like certain things like maybe gambling, that might be interfering in the relationship. And it comes back to what we said earlier about financial well-being, right? That impacts on the financial household of the family. So addictions might be a difficult one to work through.
[50:50] I know for the Gottmans, they have a very specific way of working with addictions. So um because a lot of other couples therapy they they just say okay that’s um that’s that that is those who are are working through addictions they wouldn’t qualify to do couples work like the recommendations usually go and do um some individual work or get you know substance use treatment somewhere else and then come back and do couples work so it’s typically um that’s typically the recommendation out there in the couples therapy kind of world but um but the Gottman’s come from a different perspective which I respect and I I um it’s hard but I agree with it’s hard it’s in front of you but I do agree with it um is is you as a couple are going through it together and and the partner might be let’s say the sober one um the sober partner is there to support one who’s going through the addiction so um so that’s a whole other i mean that’s probably a podcast in and of itself but uh but just just to to know that that that.
[52:13] That committed relationship actually helps and supports the person who’s going through addiction to be able to overcome it.
[52:23] You’re leveraging the relationship to be able to build the strength of the person who’s trying to overcome the addiction. So, yeah, it’s complex. And yeah, the nuance, because it’s like without putting the responsibility on the sober partner or this also examining codependent dynamics. But yeah, that it’s like, again, it’s kind of this, we’re not in a isolation. So addiction affects the partnership and the partnership could also… Creates a healthy context around the person dealing with addiction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dynamics play out and all kinds of, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There’s dynamics all over the place, like with extended family as well.
[53:10] So, yeah. So, how that kind of ties with the accept, like, yes, there’s certain things that there needs to be clear boundaries on for sure. But really thinking about what can you accept, right? What’s reasonable? What can there be some negotiation room there with and being able to accept it so so with this example it was i’m aware that part of me feels lonely when you’re on the phone during dinner i accept that there are times when you need to get back to someone urgently and i’m choosing to support you during those times so so this kind of reminds me of um let’s see if i can quickly find it i love it yeah i love bringing in the resource this is great i know it’s yeah this is yeah so i love this that’s you radical acceptance andrea miller so um so that kind of ties into this full concept of you know i need to accept um not only our partner but like other people around me because we can’t change anyone else we can only change our approach to it um in our our view of it. So being able to come to terms with those things that you can. Like I said, there’s certain boundaries that do need to be clear.
[54:28] And then the last piece. So I for I statements, L for listen,
[54:33] E for empathy. The first A is apology. The second A is accept. And then the D is for decide.
[54:43] So here they can decide together what what now okay we’ve had this conversation super helpful you shared your perspective i shared my perspective we both felt heard we both felt listened to there was an apology amazing there’s acceptance around whatever can be changed awesome so now what right now now what’s the next kind of step um maybe sometimes that’s enough like just having walked through that, that’s, that’s amazing. They feel already like better, right? So, so just having that conversation might’ve been enough. So then jointly they can decide like, yeah, I feel great. This was wonderful. Thanks for like sharing with me. And then, and then you just decide to, you know, extend a gratitude for each other. Like, thanks for being so amazing and in my life. And, and I love that we’re able to talk about these things. So, so extending gratitude might be what you decide on.
[55:39] Sometimes it might be having a more explicit action plan. Like if one person has said, okay, you know what? I promised you to do this. And then the other person says, okay, I promised you to do this. So with the phone example, like, okay, I promise, you know, 30, the first 30 minutes of dinner, my phone will be locked away. I’m not going to even touch it. It’s not going to be on the table. Having the phone on the table is also a distraction, by the way um so having the phone off the table and you know in another room locked away in your in your like pocket like jacket pocket in the closet um not your not your pocket that you can easily access but um but yeah so so one person is saying 30 minutes yes i can i can commit to that i’m agreeing to do that and then the other person saying okay outside of that then you know i’ll i’ll be understanding if you do need to use it for the latter part of dinner. So you have that action plan. Maybe just having it verbally is enough. Maybe it’s helpful to even write it down. So then you can revisit it later on, you know, try it out for a week or two and then come back and be like, okay, what did we decide on? Oh, right. It was this. How did that go? Okay. That’s going really great. Amazing. Let’s keep doing it. Or you know what? We need to tweak this. So let’s, let’s try to reconfigure a little bit more.
[57:01] And so being able to do that, just about the phone thing too. This past weekend, there was a couple there who shared something that I really loved. And that was that they don’t allow any phones or TV in the room at all in their bedroom. So I thought that was such a great rule. Because oftentimes, you know, I hear the couples that I work with, like that causes conflict, like one person’s kind of scrolling in bed and they’re just kind of not paying attention to their partner and then it’s the distraction in in the bed um and so to one another’s sleep you know yeah absolutely disrupting sleep and together time right um and so yeah i thought that was a really great um decision that they had made like a very intentional decision that they had made going into their relationship of no no screens in the bedroom so i think that’s great um so so yeah action plan might be helpful coming up with some kind of compromise um and and having having like like you said that that sense of humor and acceptance around those perpetual things that um that might might not necessarily go away so having some softening there um choosing that connection over distance and um and and being able to have that mind shift of, you’re more important than this issue.
[58:29] And then I also created some Spotify playlists for couples to use.
[58:38] Excuse me, as they kind of navigate different cycles. So if they’re, if they’re caught in a negative cycle, so it’s an EFT term. Um, if they’re caught in a negative cycle, then I made a list for that, like a, a Spotify playlist that they can, they can look at. Maybe they already have a, a song in mind, but, um, but if, if not, then the list can kind of give them some inspiration. And being able to kind of tie in your experience to music I find is really healing and being able to put words or emotion sometimes it’s it’s easier to like feel it viscerally listening to a song that you can identify with as opposed to talking about it per se so it gives a different energy And then I created a positive cycle playlist. So those that offer couples some hope and some like commitment of knowing, yeah, we can work through really difficult things, but we’ll get through it together. Like I’m committed to this relationship. And so, yeah, so sometimes that’s helpful. Cool, actually, that’s, yeah, I saw that point, and I’m like, that’s really, what’s, do you remember, like, an example of a song on the positive or the negative cycle playlist?
[1:00:06] I can pull it up. Here, let me pull it up. I can, like, even show you. Here, let me stop sharing screen. That’s so cool. Yeah. The second time, my podcast I recorded yesterday, we also discussed music.
[1:00:18] Oh, yeah? So, yeah, it’s so powerful for so many things. Like it puts feelings to things that we may struggle to express. Oh, cool. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, when I was going through some difficulties in my marriage, I’m divorced now, but when we are going through some challenges, even like five years before we actually divorced, we were going through some challenges. And um and I remember there was a day that I was driving to work and a song came on the radio and oh my Talia that hit home I just started bawling my eyes out and I went into work and I was like I can’t be here yeah so I I went home like one of my colleagues was like yeah you got to go home I don’t know what’s going on that’s a good boundary that’s a good Right, like, unleashes something. Oh, yeah, these are really cool songs. So You Love Me, Scientist by Coldplay. Yes. Poison One, Hurt, Christina. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah, it, like, gives… I mean, there’s a reason that so many songs are about relationships and love, right? It’s, like, something that really…
[1:01:36] Even as you’re discussing the I lead steps, it’s so hard to stay emotionally regulated. And that’s the importance, I think, in probably so much what you do in couples therapy is just creating a context for them, a safe space for the couple to engage in those conversations and practice that communication and listening. Yes. Because you can feel like your partner is bringing something up, something that they’re not happy with. And even if they’re using I feel language and it’s a soft start, it can still trigger this toxic shame defensiveness, like this threat of like my attachment is being threatened, you know.
[1:02:23] A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s a good point. If at any point in time, let’s say your listeners are trying out this eye lead, right? And that they come to a point where, oh, you know what? Things are getting heated. Like this isn’t what I expected. Then that’s fine. Take a pause, right? Take a minute to be able to calm and soothe and gain some composure and be able to just do that self-soothing. Um Gottman recommends anywhere between 20 minutes and 24 hours to be able to have that little break um then to be able to come back right back after that break um and during that break not ruminating of like all your counter arguments and how terrible your partner is right like no during that break you are actually doing self-soothing activities that you know are tri-tested and true for yourself. So you would have already known, okay, for me, you know, journaling really helps or like yoga really helps or walking in nature for even 10 minutes helps. So, so knowing that.
[1:03:29] Knowing yourself of what helps to calm in those situations um maybe it’s even just like watching funny cat videos for five minutes like it’s being able to get your mind off of it um because in in Gottman’s research it was very clear right like there was um they did they did some studies on on flooding itself what they call flooding so if your heart rate is over 100 beats per minute um and they they had monitors on the couples that they would bring in and study and so if the heart rate was going sky high, then they would come in and say, okay, you know what, we’re having an issue with our equipment. How about you guys go into this other room and just like, don’t say anything to each other, but here, just read these magazines and just, we’ll let you know when the equipment is working again, right? So they kind of did trick them a little bit. And then they still had the heart monitors on. So then when the heart monitors came down to like 85 or so.
[1:04:26] Then they brought them back in oh the equipment’s working better now okay let’s come back in and resume that conversation just you know take two here like resume where you left off exactly where you left off let’s continue so they would they’d resume the conversation and guess what they were like two different people were able to be open receptive the logical brain was back online they’re the the language brain was back online and so they weren’t in that fight fight flight freeze fawn mode anymore so they were able to really have a meaningful conversation so that’s so important yeah just being able to take that little pause yeah that’s so much of yeah.
[1:05:05] Like, I mean, we were talking before we started recording that I, in my internship or my practicum, I saw a few couples, but couples that were engaged in conflict, it was hard. It’s, you know, they’re like you were speaking about the passion for couples therapy and how it’s very particular type of therapy because so much of it is, yeah, you’re like laying ground rules. You’re creating a safe context and you’re really making sure, yeah, you’re almost, because the heart rate monitor is amazing and we’re rarely wearing heart rate monitors. So we have to be responsible in some way for like noticing when we’re becoming dysregulated. But so many of us don’t know that or we don’t have that relationship with ourselves. So you’re kind of watching like, okay, okay, okay. Like, let me pause you, you know, you’re having to, I’m not good at that. But I would leave sessions being like frazzled. And I’m like, oh my God.
[1:06:02] I know. Yeah. I mean, from a therapist perspective, that’s another piece, right? And I have a video on this on, I think I put on Instagram around like, what do you do as a therapist when that’s in front of you? And the first step was check in on yourself, like take a breath for yourself and regulate yourself because there might be countertransference going on for yourself. As a therapist like maybe it’s reminiscent of when your parents would argue with each other and you felt like you had to kind of mediate um you know a lot of therapists we have our own backstories um so like that’s what siding with one person over another you find yourself doing that yeah that triangulation so so we um we we are drawn into this field for for various reasons and so, we have to kind of check in on ourselves so take that breath yourself as a therapist before you kind of do anything before you say anything before you intervene but just just have a little mini check-in um and take that deep breath and then say okay let me pause you here let me pause you let’s take the heart rate right and even just like in the middle of a session if you take the heart rate, I find even just that exercise of pausing.
[1:07:23] Taking the heart rate, and then they’re like, they’re counting and they’re like, they’re waiting and I’m calculating. And, and so there’s a little bit of a break there. Right. And then even just that, like, however long, maybe two minutes that it took to measure the heart rate might have even been enough for them to just take a breath right um and then uh yeah this i i grabbed these because these are pulse oximeters so when i do meet in person then i put these on my couples so each of them has one so it’s just a little thing that they put on their like on their on their finger, And then I have it set up so that if it goes over 100 beats per minute, then it beeps.
[1:08:10] So these are great. But yeah, you’re right. People aren’t going to be walking around with these all day long. That’s really cool, actually. Because I think there’s one individual client I’m thinking of who would bring in this pattern with her partner. Where they would go from like 0 to 100 in like two steps. So even in trying to break down and identify the pattern, it was like, this would happen, then I would say this, then he would say this, then bam, we’re dysregulated. And a lot of that was like active dysregulation, like yelling, screaming, but crying. Like you know but um so many people are just their dysregulation shows and like they overwhelm and the distancing and avoidance and shutdown you know and um but sometimes often before that happens there’s an increase in heart rate and then it’s like you know kind of a shutdown.
[1:09:11] Um response where they’re just not you know so what do you think about that i don’t know i don’t care okay i’m done you know that kind of um so yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah and and like when when the person shuts down like that that’s part of the definition of stonewalling is internally like physiologically they are completely flooded so on the surface they might look like they don’t care or they’re just disengaged and they like oh they don’t they don’t care. The person who sees it, they might think they don’t care about me. They don’t care about the relationship.
[1:09:50] They don’t even want to have this conversation. But internally, they’re just completely overwhelmed and they actually care so much that they are completely dysregulated and flooded. And so they’re just trying to kind of survive that experience and just kind of get through um yeah that’s why they’re shutting down because they they care too they care so much yeah yeah that’s often yeah i always say like when when we feel numb like right when there’s a lot happening and we say i just feel numb i don’t feel anything it’s there’s too much emotion there’s an overwhelm of emotion so experiences i don’t feel anything but in fact there’s a lot going on yeah, Yeah, yeah. So bringing couples in to see that, okay, yes, there’s hope. We might be going through stuff, but there’s hope. And you can see some of the positive cycle songs on here too.
[1:10:46] Just that sense of like, I’m with you. We’ll get through the storm. So through the storm, Yolanda Adams, I’m by your side, Sade. Like, you know, just…
[1:10:56] Togetherness yeah to walk through together i choose you sarah barrett marae chasing cars cool yellow another cold play song i love it it’s good yeah i saw the um the candle lit concert oh yeah oh cool the concert yeah so so it’s instrumental only yes yeah cool yeah i’m getting ads for those they’re yeah yeah cool that’s a nice like calming sensory regulating thing to do too it’s like dim lighting and just instrumental music that you know yeah that you know and enjoy and yeah so good yeah thank you that was really helpful the eye lead, useful tips and, you know, and then this idea about, you know.
[1:11:54] Regulation and self-regulation and co-regulation to be able to have those conversations too.
[1:12:00] And then the awareness of the four horsemen that, okay, when you start to feel these coming online, it’s normal, actually, it will happen. So don’t feel discouraged, but it’s about kind of, okay, pausing and like, it’s okay I don’t you know let me undo that let me kind of you know rewind do the repairs yeah I mean that or okay oh I’m stonewalling okay let’s take a break let’s you know pause and watch cat videos and then we’ll come back yeah that’s all my uh like twitter is this is just like interesting animal videos and funny funny funny animal videos pets yeah I actually had a client tell me that recently she’s like the only thing she’s like i curate my instagram it’s just dogs i don’t want to see anything else i know yeah there’s a lot of stuff out there that that yeah stuff that is it can just um yeah when you’re not really necessarily looking for it that, can be like mini traumas that you’re watching or experiencing. Yeah, just like building in some control over what you’re exposed to and being able to monitor that. It helps. Do you have any… So one of the steps is empathy.
[1:13:27] And I’m wondering if there are… Tips for that like if somebody struggles with empathy or if they feel like their partner and maybe it’s because the partner struggles with their own shame and so their defenses like their defensiveness kicks in but yeah like is there yeah there’s actually the the same gotman app that i mentioned gotman card deck app if you go on there there is a empathy card deck expressing empathy yeah oh cool on the air sorry my my dog um snagged me i’m sorry i have a mandate um so yeah expressing empathy um so just give some ideas you can look through and see what might resonate because sometimes like you know we’re not we’re not trained necessarily generally to do these things right um we as therapists are but i mean the general public are not trained to like what’s validation like you know that that comes up a lot um with my couples is like that’s a part that’s missing in their conversations and then yeah of course they’re gonna feel unheard.
[1:14:44] Of course they’re they’re not gonna feel like their partner gets them because they’re they’re not feeling validated so yeah so things like um you must feel so hopeless so like kind of mirroring the the emotion back i feel such despair in you when you talk about this so being able to tap into what what what’s bringing what emotion is bringing up for you listening to it um you’re in a tough spot here so yeah empathizing with what they’re experiencing and, I can feel the pain you feel. The world needs to stop when you’re in this much pain. So that’s all turning to words, right? And the world needs to stop when you’re in pain.
[1:15:23] I’m in the middle of doing dishes, but I see you upset. My world in this moment can stop. And I can turn towards you when you’re feeling upset. So just that sense of connectedness together in it. Yeah. So powerful yeah yeah it’s a it’s yeah it’s really nice and it it’s like you can create space for that and then because often it’s like a yes but right like you said yeah the agreeing, part you know or um you’re like you know it can be possible to empathize even if you don’t agree right it’s like just making space for the other person’s experience and emotions and then you know and allowing that to be communicated um yeah whether you think the person’s right or you think you would respond that way or you know the whole thing where we can get into our heads and and uh or allowing the other to have their space and their.
[1:16:37] Empathy and their time and then you’ll get your time as well in this conversation you know exactly yeah exactly it’s a good point because the way that the eye lead is built each person does have a turn right and so sometimes when there’s just natural conversation happening you might interrupt because you’re trying to make your point and you’re just kind of thinking about what your point is going to be as a person’s talking but just the idea that you know you’re going to get to turn like once done you know that your turn is going to come um then just patiently waiting and in the meantime focusing on what they’re actually saying right sometimes even writing things down of what they’re saying might help just to kind.
[1:17:22] Of slow down the process and be able to be present and and remember some of the points right because when you’re summarizing back you want to be able to do that accurately so even just jotting down like little keywords as the as the person is talking might help or like if you think of questions that you don’t want to forget that question just write it down and then the like the keywords around their feeling their feeling words so jotting those down because you’re going to use those when you’re doing the empathy validation piece so yeah just having having that opportunity to take notes is really helpful too almost as you’re talking and describing this and like should be taught in school you know because that’s you’re talking about kind of like natural conversation or what people are used to the conversation patterns if we even sit down and talk at all without distractions right um.
[1:18:18] So there’s this structured approach with the steps, but it’s like, you know, learning how to snowboard when you’re teaching somebody, you’re breaking it down into these like micro steps. And then when you get good at it, then you don’t think about that. And you just kind of make art with your snowboarding or whatever the thing is. Yeah so but it can take a lot of time and a lot of practice to you know okay we have to sit down we have to do these steps together and okay that works better than whatever we were doing before or yeah weren’t doing you know and eventually that’ll just become part of how we talk to one another but you know after much repetition um yeah of practicing this skill so yeah I’m just thinking about like going into a high school and teaching people how to have conversations with their friends or partners you know yeah it’s a soft skill that more workplaces are looking for and that some people don’t necessarily have that skill and so it is super important not only in our personal relationships but also our our work the kind of work that we do and and being able to even like lead a team at the workplace, being able to hear your employees’ concerns and validate that, right? They feel heard, they feel respected in the workplace.
[1:19:48] So yeah, it touches on all kinds of areas. And I love that you mentioned about school because that’s like in my heart as well to be able to bring these kind of tools to…
[1:20:06] Two kids in classrooms and and I did it a couple like a couple years ago I I did speak to a classroom um actually at my son’s school and so um we we were able to kind of talk about feelings and like naming feelings and expressing feelings and so we kind of did that more um but yeah it starts early like that was maybe a grade four class I think it was cool so yeah I think it’s it’s wonderful to be able to start early and be able to foster that emotional intelligence yeah yeah like what am I feeling what word goes with that how do I speak that to people and because yeah you were speaking about you know soft starts and harsh starts and I can even you know so partners on their phone will use the example you use they’re on their phone at dinner it’s like can you get off your phone i’m trying to talk to you and already it’s not gonna go anywhere you know and then couples are trying to rewind and figure out where the impasse is and why don’t we connect and why don’t we like each other and and it’s like oh like we you know don’t have any starting point with which we can work with one another you know yeah like rebuilding these skills like rebuilding the relationship house kind of yes yes yeah going back to the relationship.
[1:21:32] One brick at a time yeah exactly yeah and this i mean this this house it took 50 years of research to figure it out right like it’s it’s it’s it was a long road and so to be able to implement these kinds of tools will also be a road like i feel like the next generation they’re more emotionally in tune past generations so I’m hopeful for the future in that respect um yeah I see that too actually like Gen Z is very aware and and very smart in a way that I don’t know if we were you know I’ve hoped I’ve hoped for them I know they get a lot of flack but I don’t believe it I like Gen Z’s they’re all right in my books yeah I think every generation has pros and cons right yeah that’s true yeah yeah yeah it’s interesting yeah like how um I see younger people kind of grapple with relationships and yeah the things that they’ve been exposed to and even these gender dynamics is interesting it’s an interesting conversation I think it’s pretty polarized on social media in the way that so much is polarized in order to drive kind of the negative emotion that catch your attention so there’s a way you know I think that that’s.
[1:22:57] Conversation could be a lot more nuanced, but there’s a lot of frustrations around partnership and gender dynamics and like roles in households and things like that.
[1:23:11] Yeah. Yeah. That Gen Z seems to have more of an awareness of or a transcendence of. But yeah, but that’s a general statement. I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. There’s more awareness of equity and fairness.
[1:23:29] And yeah, thanks for raising that because I’m actually in the midst of writing a book. Oh, wow. Yeah. It’s good you’re up to a lot, Melissa. This is good we catch up. We have to do another one sooner. In the works, yeah. But yeah, the one I’m writing, I’ve been wanting to write a book on premarital work for many years. And so finally, I’m like, okay, I just,
[1:23:54] I got to do it. Just have to sit down and do it. So I started it a couple weeks ago, actually. And then, so I have the whole outline done.
[1:24:03] And last night, I started to like, write the prologue and then started to write the first chapter. So it’s early stages. But it’s, yeah, for premarital couples, primarily. But of course, like any couple can benefit from the information. But, yeah, that’s one of the topics. That’s why I thought of it, because that was one of the topics is roles, right? Rules and expectations and invisible labor. And so that’s all. That’s cool. Yeah. I know there’s like the card game fair play to kind of just visualize and lay it out and start having conversations around it. So there’s tools that are helpful. Which is great. Yeah, it’s a tough one. And it’s one where, and I don’t necessarily see this in just heterosexual dynamics either. It seems to be that there’s, This idea of fairness, and maybe it also reflects a difference in temperament, too. If I would rather there be no socks on the floor and my partner doesn’t care, then I’m probably going to be the one picking them up, right?
[1:25:10] Yeah, levels, differing expectations of cleanliness. Interesting. My student, she’s a MSW student from U of T. She’s with me for the summer, and so she’s really interested in blog writing. And I said, yeah, please. My blog, sometimes I’m delinquent with my blog and kind of a couple years will pass and there’s no entry.
[1:25:34] But yeah, she’s interested in blog writing. And I said, yes, please go for it. And so she gave me some topic ideas that she was thinking of. And then Invisible Labor was one of them. And so I said, yeah, go for it. And then so she she has a draft. We just have to finalize the draft.
[1:25:50] And then in that I had mentioned to her about the fair play card game. And she she hadn’t heard of it before. She’s like, oh, that’s fantastic. That’s so practical and fun. Like it makes it kind of fun, right? To kind of think about, okay, what are all the tasks that I do versus what you do? And let’s see how it stacks up. um and so yeah she incorporated that in her blog as well so yeah keep an eye out for that I don’t know oh that’s really cool yeah because it’s also like what goes into every task like if I if my job.
[1:26:22] In our relationship is to write the thank you cards yeah or birthday cards well that means I have to remember them I have to know I have to keep on track it’s not as simple as like you know I have to go buy the cards I have to think of every person’s personality what kind a card they were like there’s all this work around the managing that project um you know yeah so that’s that’s uh yeah cooking is cooking if my job is to cook the three meals every day and your job is to clean the gutters once of how often do you clean them a month that’s not necessarily like tit for tat right and yeah yeah yeah yeah interesting there’s a lot in in partner because there’s sort of this like.
[1:27:13] Team relationship of how do we manage a household or how do we manage a family um how are we partners in that it’s not that necessarily romantic sphere but it’s like how do we practically make it work where we can live and function together exactly yeah yeah yeah, so i think those are good like it’s it’s good conversations and um and that’s the piece right You have to be able to sit down, have these conversations with each other, and work through it, and come up with some agreed upon solution together if possible.
[1:27:55] Um and yeah kind of going back to the seven principles as well like that it walks through the friendship foundation the the conflict management piece so yeah how are we going to solve the solvable problems how are we going to manage the perpetual problems or gridlock issues sometimes it if you’re really butting heads on it becomes a gridlock issue and then the third part um, general general bucket that is is is the comprises the seven principles is the shared meaning, so so being able to get on the same uh aligned with what the expectations are what the roles are what the rituals of connection or like rhythms of our time together being able to connect together will be, and what kind of symbolizes or represents our relationship. And so being able to kind of walk through those areas of, and our goals, what are we setting out to accomplish with our relationship? So that’s all covered at the retreats as well, like all seven principles. So that’s the seventh principle is the shared meaning. And.
[1:29:17] One thing that came out of the retreat from this past weekend was um like wanting a little bit more on the symbols part um and so it it’s actually connected to a workshop that i i’ll have in august i’ll be collaborating with someone um someone who like she does more the art therapy stuff. And so in August, like we’re aiming at the end of August to do, um, like an art therapy for couples. Right. And so I kind of want to, I have to talk to her still about it, but I kind of want to incorporate symbolism.
[1:29:58] So like, you know, what does your relationship mean? Um, like for example, my, my student, she used to be a student last year, but now she’s an associate with me. Um, So she gave an example of in her relationship that they’ve been married over 30 years. Over time, their relationship has meant and continues to mean hospitality. So then it kind of caught me thinking like, okay, because when that person at the retreat said like, okay, this like symbols thing, like we’re, you know, we’re trying to get our mind wrapped around that. And so I was thinking about it more afterwards, last night actually. And um and so i was thinking about like okay like with that example that susan had shared about hospitality like how can how can we make that into a symbol and bring in like incorporate that in potentially the workshop in august right to like do some kind of art exercise for couples symbols um and so so then i was i well chet gpt is great for this kind of stuff and like, brainstorming right so then it came up with a whole bunch of different symbols for hospitality and then one of those symbols i really liked which was breaking bread.
[1:31:20] Basic like you know straightforward kind of symbol and so so then i asked it to um draw a picture of that like a like a couple breaking bread like with people around them kind of thing And so it created this like image, animated kind of image of breaking bread. And so like, oh, that’s so perfect. Like, I think that’s so wonderful. So then, you know, you could take that. And then and then and then in like the art workshop, for example, then like draw, draw you guys breaking bread or like just even drawing a loaf of bread and and just that that symbolizes the hospitality. So yeah so that that piece um cool it’s almost like uh creating like a logo or a what do you call those things like um.
[1:32:09] Cigna you know or like the the coat of arms for your relationship like what’s what’s you know what represents your partnership or your exactly yeah it’s beautiful because a lot of the time we do have images in our head or we yeah or even to think about what image would come to mind if you think about your relationship or what are the images um and how do we make those concrete or bring them to life or like yeah represent them to think of yeah what does our partnerships stand for what symbolizes it or yeah what are our shared shared values purpose direction you know yes past present future like the narrative like it’s a kind of leaving narrative therapy and yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah and yeah so past present future would be and then that kind of ties in with the goals as well what we still want to accomplish you know five years 10 years 20 years in retirement etc so yeah yeah that’s really cool yeah so those are all the kind of topic areas that we that we cover in the retreat and then the next one is um i booked at the same place the queen of apostles and that’ll be may 29th to 31st next year 2026 yes and then And there’s something coming up in August. Do you still have spots open for that for people who are interested? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:33:39] Honestly, we haven’t opened it yet. We haven’t opened the registration yet. So, yes. But if people are interested, just email me and then they can already be on the pre-registration list. Perfect. Yeah. Maybe what people can do is go to, I’ll put a link for your website. And if they go and grab the iLead freebie, then they’ll be on your mailing list and then they’ll get updates about what’s coming next. Exactly. Yeah. That’s the easiest way to do it. Yeah. Just to kind of get on the mailing list. And then they’ll be the first to know about when something’s open for registration. So I had that one in August. That’s the art one. And then this one, May 29th to 31st. And then September, this coming September, we have a money talk one. So an anti-budget couples edition. So I’m excited for that too. So I’m partnering with Angie Ross on that. So she’s a money coach. And I’m just trying to find a date. I think it’s September 25th. Let me just double check.
[1:34:49] That’s cool. Yeah, I love that there’s this, like, acknowledgement and then embracing of this financial piece, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Important, yeah. Oh, yeah, here it is. September 23rd, it’s a Tuesday. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s at a 17th. It’s my niece’s birthday. Aw. Yeah.
[1:35:12] Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. Okay, that’s great. So it’s like, it sounds like it’s practical advice for financials. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, kind of aligning on what, again, what are our goals? And then depending on what the goals are, tying, you know, sometimes there’s money attached to the goal, right? So then being able to backtrack. So if we’re, if our goal, you know, we’re, we’re aligned on our, on our shared value of travel. So we love to travel. So then our goal is next year to go on an Alaskan cruise to see the Bora Borealis. Okay. I’m just like thinking out loud here. That is one of my bucket list items. Yeah, that’s cool. And so if that’s our goal, like let’s say next year to do that Alaskan cruise, then how much is that going to cost? And then backtracking. So if it’s going to cost like, I don’t know, they’re expensive. Let’s say $10,000 for both of us. I don’t know. And so then backtracking. So we have like, hey, let’s say a year and a half to save for it.
[1:36:22] Then how much do we need to save each month? And then creating its own separate account that is a savings account that doesn’t have any kind of bank charges, right? So you can just contribute to the savings account and it’s just money sitting there that you’re contributing to. And so every month saving for that Alaskan cruise. So then eventually you’ll be able to go on that cruise and not go into debt as a result, but actually have the money saved for it. So yeah so anyway little tips like that right that she’ll you know walk through that’s good yeah so it’s helping to kind of create a space to figure out okay how are we going to yeah because again money conversations are another of those sticky like unpleasant sometimes conversations that we don’t it’s like how do we even do this but then okay like if every month we’re putting aside a little bit we’re going to put it in.
[1:37:18] This tax-free mutual fund or whatever and then at the end of the year we have it so um yeah that’s good and then then we can go on our cruise and then it’s not a stress that we’re always kind of grappling with exactly yeah yeah christmas is another one right like um if christmas you know you’re gonna spend like two thousand dollars in total on entertainment food travel um gifts right decorations whatever the whole christmas budget is whatever that all entails if it adds up to like two thousand three thousand dollars then kind of backtracking okay what do we need to save each month to be able to survive christmas and not feel totally stressed out.
[1:38:03] So interesting i’ll say this um there’s a um manifestation uh kind of business uh called um to be magnetic so there’s like an influencer that works on this and she always talks about how relationships and money are intertwined and i think the the symbolism in both of those things is like security and um freedom responsibility like there’s so much tied up in money you know that uh in our relationship to money so it’s an interesting it’s good it’s bold to just bring it into the conversation and you know yeah yeah with the book that i’m writing there’s a there’s a on money too and um and then yeah kind of delving into just that right where did our story of money start where’s that from like what was our parents experience with money what did we witness to that um and what does money mean to us so yeah it’s it’s quite charged right it’s it goes quite quite deep yeah and especially in in marriage like there’s this like combining of finances very often yeah um and so it’s like i inherit your money issues you’re gonna take on mine now we have to sort through that if we’ve never looked at that before here it is it’s like in front of us yes so i don’t know.
[1:39:27] Yeah. Well, that’s so good. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Yeah. Thanks so much, Melissa. Any final thoughts or anything you want to wrap up with? We’ll put all your links in the show notes. Great yeah no i think that’s great like i i think that um you know if couples are kind of wondering about how to like maybe they don’t necessarily want to do couples counseling but they’re just curious about wanting to know more tools or have more tools or do something some kind of couple activity together like the workshops we have workshops pretty regularly on different topics. And then, and then the retreat, like, I think that’s a nice way to kind of, you know, if you don’t necessarily want to do the in-depth couples therapy,
[1:40:15] then there’s other options out there. And even for those couples who, like, they’re in a good place, right? They’re, they’re happy, they’re content, they’re in a good place. It’s for them too, right? To be able to maintain that good place, because that takes effort and work too, just to maintain.
[1:40:34] So yeah, I remember I had made that point at the retreat as well of like, you know, if you’re going to go to the gym and work out and you have a certain goal for your body to, you know, build a certain amount of muscle tone or like have a certain percent of body fat, whatever. And then you work really hard and then you attain your goal, you achieved your goal, then if you want to maintain that, even just maintaining that takes work.
[1:41:01] The relationship is the same way. Just to maintain it also takes that work. So maybe it’s not necessarily delving into full-on couples therapy, but maybe it’s doing a workshop or doing a retreat or something like that. Yeah. It’s good because the Gottmans, one thing I appreciate about them is the way they present their information is seems it’s very digestible I wouldn’t say simple but it has that like it’s not very complicated or very you know cognitive but there’s so much research and so for a couple who everything is working and they’re and they’re great and it’s like nice to just know oh this is what you’ve been doing maybe because you have these seven principles down pat it’s kind of like you hit your like muscle building goal like to use your analogy but you didn’t you don’t know what you did right and it’s like well you went to the gym you tracked your macros and it’s like oh right right okay okay so just keep doing that right otherwise it’s like okay I don’t know what what’s working maybe we just really get along but to know okay like you’re actually following these principles turns out um.
[1:42:09] And you’ve accepted the 69% of things that don’t align.
[1:42:14] So good for you because who can naturally just do that by accident, you know? No, that takes effort in and of itself. Yeah. And just like a lot of emotional maturity.
[1:42:26] Yeah. Yeah. And my team is obviously there for those couples who do want to do that deep dive and do that, you know, more traditional couples work. So they see they see couples for all kinds of different reasons whether it’s you know depression anxiety infidelity um communication issues conflict management okay we’re always having the same argument like how are we going to navigate that feeling disconnected like that’s one we see quite a lot is just you know where we’ve had kids like we’re just we’re busy with the kids and we just we don’t even know who each other are anymore um and so that that comes up um quite a bit as well just that sense of disconnection so then being able to bring them back together and reform that that bond again so yeah it was great cool yeah so anyone listening check out the show notes to get in touch with melissa go on a retreat or yeah access some of the resources and yeah this is really good thank you so much that was really helpful and i liked the lesson i think that’s going to be really beneficial for people the eyelid oh good yeah Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. I’m glad. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, um.
[1:43:48] Yeah, I, it was, it was, uh, uh, an exercise that I had put together and, and it was like, maybe for a good week or so, maybe 10 days. It just like, it was one of those things that just like consumed me. Like, oh, I could add this and, oh, I can add this. And so, so it started off without another, without a second A and, and without the heart of like, you know, defining the two different areas. And so it’s like over those maybe, maybe 10 days or so, I was like tweaking it, evolving it, you know, using it with my clients. And then they would give me feedback on even just the handout. When I, when I had, you know, the, what I showed you of just the content. Content and then my I remember a couple I was I am working with that said like this is amazing it’s so helpful but can you put it in just one summary cheat sheet page and so then I added that you’ll see if you if you download the the handout there is that at the end like I didn’t show it here but it was after the content part of the instructions then there’s another page that was just just like a cheat sheet yeah and that took um that took because i wanted it to be pretty.
[1:45:03] And like you know and and be able to you know i’m, bring in my logo and like bring in little emojis but then the emojis I wanted them to be my my my logo colors and anyway it was like a whole thing just to like put that cheat sheet together but yeah I hope people appreciate it and and find it useful so that was that was the whole idea um just to be able to provide some framework that um that couples can use like if there’s something just heavy on your heart heavy on your mind like how how can we navigate this so that we set that conversation up for success yeah and then you can just print out the cheat sheet or write down the points and then have it with you put it on the table okay wait we missed a step let’s go back okay empathize please yeah like they could even if they’re on the go like they can just take a picture of the cheat sheet right and then it’s in their photos and then they can just pull it up like if they’re on vacation or you know they’re they’re like at a family member’s house or something and then something comes up and they need to kind of have a conversation and they can pull up the cheat sheet from wherever they are just yeah is it yeah even just the um i statement it can be it can feel clunky and kind of foreign in your mouth if you’re not used to speaking that way so it’s like wait hey i stop using your okay no sorry wait i feel lonely when you’re right yes, But it changes the whole game. It does.
[1:46:29] If it’s an I statement that says, I feel that you always leave the dishes out or whatever, then it’s just a criticism under the disguise of an I statement. That’s not an I statement.
[1:46:47] I feel that whenever the next bit is that. No, no, no. Start again. It needs to be a feeling word. yeah like yeah otherwise you’re just kind of hiding a judgment or a criticism right yeah i feel that you are an idiot exactly yeah i feel frustrated when you do this thing and yeah that i think is idiotic but maybe you keep that part to yourself yeah yeah yeah keeping the harsh statements but stating what you feel about what’s going on that’s fair and what you need thank you so much Melissa yeah it was fun thanks for coming me thanks for coming.
On Thursday, June 20th, the Ontario government passed Bill C-59, exempting psychotherapy sessions from HST.
This is excellent news! This means that from now on, HST does not need to be charged for therapy visits (it was removed from Naturopathic Medicine appointments several years ago).
This makes therapy a little cheaper, as savings are passed onto you.
As many of you know, I have been a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) since the Summer of 2023 and have been accepting new clients since April 2024.
Sessions are covered by extended health benefits and are conducted online for Ontario and Quebec residents.
To learn more about working with me, feel free to book a 20-minute free meet and greet at taliand.janeapp.com
Therapy discussions involve:
burnout and stress
self-care
self-esteem, self-worth, self-talk
work stress and imposter syndrome
relationships
values and narrative therapy
grief
trauma
family systems, parental and intergenerational patterns, relational dynamics
cognitive behavioural tools
somatic and mindfulness tools
mental health care: dealing with depression, anxiety, ADHD symptoms, etc.
And so on.
I am an eclectic therapist who loves cognitive, psychodynamic, and humanistic approaches and therapy styles. I offer tools from various therapeutic modalities that might best suit clients and their needs.
I prefer not to rigidly adhere to one approach–you may choose to talk, prefer body-based tools, or want homework exercises or practical solutions to your problems. In the end, all therapy styles can be effective, but it comes down to the preferences and needs of the individual.
Therapy differs from naturopathic medicine appointments, which are more directive and prescriptive and involve bloodwork, supplements, herbs, and lifestyle recommendations.
In therapy sessions, we focus on building a nonjudgmental and supportive therapeutic relationship as we work on helping you gain self-understanding and insights to help you live by your goals and values.
Therapy and naturopathic medicine can pair well with one another.
Therapy can help remove obstacles to lifestyle changes, like self-talk or associations that can keep us feeling stuck. We can compassionately and non-judgementally explore factors that lower motivation or prevent us from taking the specific actions that we want.
Naturopathic medicine can support therapy by identifying the physical root causes of mental health symptoms and supporting the body through gut health, hormonal balance, and optimizing organs like the liver, blood sugar, stress response, and sleep.
They complement one another very well, and I often work with the same individual in both practices.
What does “Qualifying” after my registered psychotherapist title mean?
Therapists licensed by the College of Registered Psychotherapists of Ontario (CRPO) must put “qualifying” after their names until they have completed all three requirements.
450 hours of client session
100 hours supervision
completion of a Registration Exam
While psychotherapists qualify, they are still licensed, have a licence number, have sessions covered under insurance, and receive regular (weekly) supervision with a licensed supervisor.
Qualifying registrants typically have lower fees than psychotherapists who have completed these requirements.
My last step will be to complete the registration exam in Spring 2025, in which I expect to remove my title’s “qualifying” aspect.
Let me know if you have any questions about the registration and licensing of psychotherapists in Ontario!
“There’s a sunrise and a sunset every day and you can choose to be there or not. “You can put yourself in the way of beauty.” – Cheryl Strayed, Wild Yellow and orange hues stimulate melatonin production, aiding sleep. Melatonin is not just our sleep hormone, it’s an antioxidant and has been studied for its positive mood, hormonal, immune, anti-cancer, and digestive system effects. Our bodies have adjusted to respond to the light from 3 billion sunsets. While we can take melatonin in supplement form, use blue light blocking glasses, or use red hued light filters and, while tech can certainly help us live more healthfully, it’s important to remember that the best bio-hack is simply to remember your heritage and put yourself back in nature’s way. The best tech of all is in the natural rhythms of the planet and encoded in your beautiful DNA. Optimal health is about re-wilding. Optimal health is about remembering who you are and coming back to your true nature. You have the code within in you to live your best, healthiest life. I believe healing is about tapping into that code, supporting our nature, and allowing the light of our optimal health template to shine through.
The proximity to water can improve focus, creativity, health and professional success according to marine biologist and surfer Wallace J. Nichols in his book, Blue Mind. A “blue mind” describes a neurological state of of calm centredness. Being around water heightens involuntary attention, where external stimuli capture our attention, generating a mind that is open, and expansive, and neurochemicals like dopamine and serotonin are released. He says, “This is flow state, where we lose track of time, nothing else seems to matter, and we truly seem alive and at our best”. Contrast a blue mind to a red mind, where neurons release stress chemicals like norepinephrine, cortisol in response to stress, anxiety and fear. From the book Mindfulness and Surfing:
“Surfing is not just about riding a wave, but immersion in nature: the aching silence of a calm sea is punctuated by a cluster of blue lines. The point is to spend a little more time looking and listening than doing.
“Maybe this is not just about being but about what the philosopher Heidegger called “becoming”–a being in time, an unfolding sense of what he further called ‘dwelling’.
“When we dwell, we inhabit.”
Jungian Psychoanalyst, Frances Weller posed the question, “What calls you so fully into the world other than beauty?” In other words, “Without beauty what is it that attracts us into life?” Our human affinity for beauty is perhaps the greatest pull of all into aliveness. And yet so many of us feel purposeless, or that life is meaningless. In our world we are suffering from a “Meaning Crisis”, which perhaps partially explains the epidemic of mental health issues that plague us. We spend so much time bogged down in the business of being alive: bills, chores, work–“dotting Ts and crossing Is” as I like say 😂 This is part of the reason why 1/6th of my 6-week Mental Health Foundations program (Good Mood Foundations) involves getting into nature. For there is nothing more beautiful than the gorgeous imperfection of the natural world. We are called by it. There are myriad scientific studies on the power of “Forest Bathing” for de-stressing, for mental health, for supporting our mood, hormonal health, immune systems, social relationships, and so on. And yet so often when we say words like “beauty” we call on images of “perfection”: symmetrical youthful faces, bodies with zero fat on them, etc.
We are focused on the missing parts instead of how the effect of nature’s imperfect beauty has on us–and thus we rob ourselves of the pleasure of being in the presence of beauty. For what is pleasure but beauty personified? And what is depression other than a lack of deep, embodied soulful pleasure? I find being in nature brings me closer, not so much to beauty as a concept of commercial idealism, but a sense of pleasure. It pulls me into my body.
I feel my feet on the ground, my breath timing my steps, the birdsong and wind in my ears, and I feel calmed, and centred, called into the experience of being fully alive.
If you’re struggling to find meaning, practice showing up to your sunsets for a few evenings in a row.
Put yourself in the way of beauty. When the sunsets show up everyday, will you show up too?
It was a crappy week and I was chatting with a friend online. He said something that triggered me… it just hit some sort of nerve. I backed away from my computer, feeling heavy. I went to the kitchen to pour myself a glass of water and collapsed, elbows on the counter, head in my hands, my body shaking and wracking with deep, guttural sobs.
A few seconds later, I’m not sure how long exactly, I stood up. Tears and snot streaming down my face, I wiped them off with a tissue. I felt lighter, clearer. I was still heavy and sad, but there was a part of me that had opened. I went back to my computer and relayed some of this to my friend, “what you said triggered me, but it’s ok, it just hit a personal nerve. I’m ok now though, I know you didn’t mean any harm”. I typed to him.
Joan Rosenberg, PhD in her book 90 Seconds to a Life You Love, would have said that, in that moment, I had been open to feeling the moment-to-moment experience of my emotions and bodily sensations. I felt the waves of emotions run through my body, and let them flow for a total of up to 90 seconds. And, in so welcoming that experience and allowing it to happen rather than blocking it, fighting it, projecting it (onto my friend or others), I was able to release it and let it go.
For many of us, avoidance is our number one strategy when it comes to our emotions. We don’t like to feel uncomfortable. We don’t like unpleasant sensations, thoughts and feelings and, most of all, we don’t like feeling out of control. Emotions can be painful. In order to avoid these unpleasant experiences, we distract ourselves. We try to numb our bodies and minds to prevent these waves of emotion and bodily sensation from welling up inside of us. We cut ourselves off.
The problem, however is that we can’t just cut off one half of our emotional experience. When we cut off from the negative emotions, we dampen the positive ones as well.
This can result in something that Dr. Rosenberg titles, “soulful depression”, the result of being disconnected from your own personal experience, which includes your thoughts, emotions and body sensations.
Soulful depression is characterized by an internal numbness, or a feeling of emptiness. Over time it can transform into isolation, alienation and hopelessness–perhaps true depression.
Anxiety in many ways is a result of cutting ourselves off from emotional experience as well. It is a coping mechanism: a way that we distract ourselves from the unpleasant emotions we try to disconnect from.
When we worry or feel anxious our experience is often very mental. We might articulate that we are worried about a specific outcome. However, it’s not so much the outcome we are worried about but a fear and desire to avoid the unpleasant emotions that might result from the undesired outcome–the thing we are worrying about. In a sense, anxiety is a way that we distract from the experience of our emotions, and transmute them into more superficial thoughts or worries.
When you are feeling anxious, what are you really feeling?
Dr. Rosenberg writes that there are eight unpleasant feelings:
sadness
shame
helplessness
anger
embarrassment
disappointment
frustration
vulnerability
Often when we are feeling anxious we are actually feeling vulnerable, which is an awareness that we can get hurt (and often requires a willingness to put ourselves out there, despite this very real possibility).
When we are able to stay open to, identify and allow these emotions to come through us, Dr. Rosenberg assures us that we will be able to develop confidence, resilience, and a feeling of emotional strength. We will be more likely to speak to our truth, combat procrastination, and bypass negative self-talk.
She writes, “Your sense of feeling capable in the world is directly tied to your ability to experience and move through the eight difficult feelings”.
Like surfing a big wave, when we ride the waves of the eight difficult emotions we realize that we can handle anything, as the rivers of life are more able to flow through us and we feel more present to our experience: both negative and positive.
One of the important skills involved in “riding the waves” of difficult feelings is to learn to tolerate the body sensations that they produce. For many people, these sensations will feel very intense–especially if you haven’t practice turning towards them, but the important thing to remember is that they will eventually subside, in the majority of cases in under 90 seconds.
Therefore, the key is to stay open to the flow of the energy from these emotions and body sensations, breathe through them and watch them crescendo and dissipate.
This idea reminds me of the poem by Rumi, The Guest House:
This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all! Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still, treat each guest honorably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice, meet them at the door laughing, and invite them in.
Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond.
One of the reasons I was so drawn to Dr. Rosenberg’s book is this idea of the emotional waves lasting no more than 90 seconds. We are so daunted by these waves because they require our surrender. It is very difficult however, if you suffer from anxiety to let go of control. To gives these emotional waves a timeframe can help us stick it out. 90 seconds is the length of a short song! We can tolerate almost anything for 90 seconds. I found this knowledge provided me with a sense of freedom.
The 90 seconds thing comes from Dr. Jill Bolt Taylor who wrote the famous book My Stroke of Insight (watch her amazing Ted Talk by the same name). When an emotion is triggered, she states, chemicals from the brain are released into the bloodstream and surge through the body, causing body sensations.
Much like a wave washing through us, the initial sensation is a rush of the chemicals that flood our tissues, followed by a flush as they leave. The rush can occur as blushing, heat, heaviness, tingling, is over within 90 seconds after which the chemicals have completely been flushed out of the bloodstream.
Dr. Rosenberg created a method she calls the “Rosenberg Reset”, which involves three steps:
Stay aware of your moment-to-moment experience. Fully feel your feelings, thoughts, bodily sensations. Choose to be aware of and not avoid your experience.
Experience and move through the eight difficult feelings when they occur. These are: sadness, shame, helplessness, anger, embarrassment, disappointment, frustration, vulnerability.
Ride one or more 90 second waves of bodily sensations that these emotions produce.
Many therapeutic techniques such as mindfulness, Dialectical Behaviour Therapy, somatic therapy, and so on utilize these principles. When we expand our window of tolerance and remain open to our physical and emotional experience we allow energy to move through us more gracefully. We move through our stuckness.
Oftentimes though, we can get stuck underwater, or hung up on the crest of a wave. Rumination and high levels of cortisol, our stress hormone can prolong the waves of unpleasant emotion. We may be more susceptible to this if we have a narrow window of tolerance due to trauma.
However, many of us can get stuck in the mind, and when we ruminate on an emotionally triggering memory over and over again, perhaps in an effort to solve it or to make sense of it, we continue to activate the chemicals in our body that produce the emotional sensation.
Therefore, it’s the mind that can keep us stuck, not the emotions themselves. Harsh self-criticism can also cause feelings to linger.
I have found that stories and memories, grief, terror and rage can become stuck in our bodies. Books like The Body Keeps the Score speak to this–when we block the waves, or when the waves are too big we can build up walls around them. We compartmentalize them, we shut them away and these little 90 second waves start to build up, creating energetic and emotional blockages.
In Vipassana they were referred to as sankharas, heaps of clinging from mental activity and formations that eventually solidify and get lodged in the physical body, but can be transformed and healed.
Perhaps this is why a lot of trauma work involves large emotional purges. Breathwork, plant medicines such as Ayahuasca, and other energetic healing modalities often encourage a type of purging to clear this “sludge” that tends to accumulate in our bodies.
My friend was commenting on the idea that her daughter, about two years old, rarely gets sick. “She’ll have random vomiting spells,” my friend remarked, “and then, when she’s finished, she recovers and plays again”.
“It reminds me of a mini Ayahuasca ceremony”, I remarked, jokingly, “maybe babies are always in some sort of Ayahuasca ceremony.”
This ability to cry, to purge, to excrete from the body is likely key to emotional healing. I was listening to a guest on the Aubrey Marcus podcast, Blu, describe this: when a story gets stuck in a person it often requires love and a permission to move it, so that it may be purged and released.
Fevers, food poisoning, deep fitful spells of sobbing may all be important for clearing up the backlog of old emotional baggage and sludge so that we can free up our bodies to ride these 90 second emotional waves in our moment-to-moment experience.
Grief is one of these primary sources of sludge in my opinion. Perhaps because we live in a culture that doesn’t quite know how to handle grief–that time-stamps it, limits it, compartmentalizes it, commercializes it, and medicates it–many of us suffer from an accumulation of suppressed grief sankharas that has become lodged in our bodies.
Frances Weller puts it this way,
“Depression isn’t depression, it’s oppression–the accumulated weight of decades of untouched losses that have turned into sediment, an oppressive weight on the soul. Processing loss is how the majority of therapies work, by touching sorrow upon sorry that was never honoured or given it’s rightful attention.”
Like a suppressed bowel movement, feelings can be covered up, distracted from. However, when we start to turn our attention to them we might find ourselves running to the nearest restroom. Perhaps in these moments it’s important to get in touch with someone to work with, a shaman of sorts, or a spiritual doula, someone who can help you process these large surges of energy that your body is asking you to purge.
However, it is possible to set our dial to physiological neutral to, with courage turn towards our experience, our emotions and body sensations. And to know that we can surf them, and even if we wipe out from time to time, we might end up coming out the other side, kicking out, as Rumi says, “laughing”.
The only way out is through.
As Jon Kabat Zinn says, “you can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf”.
About a month ago I fractured my right 5th metatarsal (an avulsion fracture, aka “The Dancer’s Fracture” or a “Pseudo-Jones Fracture”).
As soon as I laid eyes on the x-ray and the ER doctor declared, “Ms. Marcheggiani,” (actually, it’s doctor, but ok) “you broke your foot!” things changed.
I have never broken anything before, but if you have you know what it’s like. In a matter of seconds I couldn’t drive. I could barely put weight on it. I was given an Aircast boot to hobble around in, and told to ice and use anti-inflammatories sparingly. My activities: surfing, skateboarding, yoga, even my daily walks, came to a startling halt.
I spent the first few days on the couch, my foot alternating between being elevated in the boot and immersed in an ice bath. I took a tincture with herbs like Solomon’s Seal, mullein, comfrey, and boneset to help heal the bone faster. I was adding about 6 tbs of collagen to oats in the morning. I was taking a bone supplement with microcrystalline hydroxyapatite, pellets of homeopathic symphytum, zinc, and vitamin D.
We call this “treatment stacking”: throwing everything but the kitchen sink at something to give the body as many resources as possible that it may use to heal.
My brother’s wedding came and went. I was the emcee, and the best man. I bedazzled my boot and hobbled around during set-up, photos, presentations, and even tried shaking and shimmying, one-legged on the dance floor. The next few days I sat on the couch with my leg up.
I watched the Olympics and skateboarding videos. I read The Master and the Margarita and Infinite Jest. I got back into painting and created some pen drawings, trying to keep my mind busy.
I slept long hours–an amount that I would have previously assumed to be incapable. The sleep felt necessary and healing. I was taking melatonin to deepen it further.
I closed down social media apps on my phone to deal with the immense FOMO and stop mindlessly scrolling. I journaled instead, turning my focus from the outside world to my inner one.
It was a painful process, and not necessarily physically.
I was confined to my immediate surroundings–not able to walk far or drive. I was at the mercy of friends and family to help me grocery shop. The last year and a half has made many of us grow accustomed to social isolation and a lot of my social routines from years prior had fallen by the wayside.
My world, like the worlds of many, had gotten smaller over the last 18 months. With a broken foot, my world shrunk even further.
The loneliness was excruciating.
It would come in waves.
One moment I would relish the time spent idle and unproductive. The next I would be left stranded by my dopamine receptors, aimless, sobbing, grieving something… anything… from my previous life. And perhaps not just the life I had enjoyed pre-broken foot, but maybe a life before society had “broken”, or even before my heart had.
I thought I would be more mentally productive and buckle down on work projects but it became painfully obvious that my mental health and general productivity are tightly linked to my activity levels. And so I spent a lot of the weeks letting my bone heal in a state of waiting energy.
My best friend left me a voicemail that said, “Yes… you’re in that waiting energy. But, you know, something will come out of it. Don’t be hard on yourself. Try to enjoy things… watch George Carlin…”
During the moments where I feel completely useless and unproductive, waiting for life to begin, I was reminded of this quote by Cheryl Strayed. This quote speaks to me through the blurry, grey haze of boredom and the existential urgency of wasting time.
It says,
“The useless days will add up to something. The shitty waitressing jobs. The hours writing in your journal. The long meandering walks. The hours reading poetry and story collections and novels and dead people’s diaries and wondering about sex and God and whether you should shave under your arms or not. These things are your becoming.”
These things are your becoming.
Something will come out of it.
When I did a 10-Day Vipassana (silent meditation) retreat in the summer of 2018, I learned about pain.
It was Day 3 or 4 and we had been instructed to sit for an entire hour without moving. The pain was excruciating. The resistance was intense. I was at war with myself and then, when the gong went off and there was nothing to push against, I noticed a complete relief of tension. I was fine.
The next time I sat to meditate (another hour after a 10 minute break), I observed the resistance and released it. It’s hard to describe exactly what I did. It was something like, letting the sensations of pain flow through me like leaves on a river, rather than trying to cup my hands around them, or understand or making meaning out of them.
The sensations ebbed and flowed. Some might have been called “unpleasant” but I wasn’t in a space to judge them while I was just a casual observer, watching them flow by. They just were.
And when I have intense feelings of loneliness, boredom or heart-break I try to remember the experience I had with pain and discomfort on my meditation cushion. I try to allow them.
“This too shall pass”.
When I have a craving to jump off my couch and surf, or an intense restlessness in the rest of my body, the parts that aren’t broken, I try to let those sensations move through me.
I notice how my foot feels. How while apparently still, beneath my external flesh my body is busy: it’s in a process. It’s becoming something different than it was before. It’s becoming more than a foot that is unbroken. It’s becoming callused and perhaps stronger.
Maybe my spirit is in such a process as well.
The antidote to boredom and loneliness very often is a process of letting them move through, of observing the sensations and stepped back, out of the river to watch them flow by. A patience. Letting go.
I can’t surf today. But, it is the nature of waves that there will always be more.
Pima Chodron in her book When Things Fall Apart also references physical pain and restless in meditation while speaking of loneliness.
She writes,
“Usually we regard loneliness as the enemy. Heartache is not something we choose to invite in. It’s restless and pregnant and hot with desire to escape and find something or someone to keep us company. When we can rest in the middle, we begin to have a nonthreatening relationship with loneliness, a relaxing and cooling loneliness that completely turns our usual fearful patterns upside down.”
She continues,
“When you wake up in the morning and out of nowhere comes the heartache of alienation and loneliness, could you use that as a golden opportunity? Rather than persecuting yourself or feeling that something terribly wrong is happening, right there in the moment of sadness and longing, could you relax and touch the limitless space of the human heart?
“The next time you get a chance, experiment with this.”
“The problem with depression is, you can’t see the end.”
Depression is like a ditch. Sometimes you head into and get stuck, but you manage to wiggle out. Other times you’re in a major rut and can’t get out at all. In those cases you need to call someone. It happened to me once. I was driving in the winter to a hiking spot and I thought that a flat-looking patch of snow was the side of the road and before you know it I’d driven into a ditch. I couldn’t get out. I tried gunning it, putting rocks under my tires, getting a friend to push. Eventually I just had to call someone. Within a few minutes, a tow truck came. The man driving it unceremoniously and unemotionally told me to put the car in neutral. He hooked a giant chain to my bumper. He yanked me out of the ditch. And then he drove off. Roadside assistance. In my last post I said something akin to “health is not emotional”. It’s sometimes just an equation. With patients I educate them on their prefrontal cortex, on brain inflammation, on Polyvagal Theory and the nervous system and how depression is a normal response of the nervous system to abnormal circumstances, and how to they can work with their body and environment to get the help they need to yank them out of the ditch. But I also talk about the people around us. We need them. We need them to be our prefrontal cortexes (because when you’re depressed or anxious yours isn’t working at full capacity–you CAN’T just yank yourself out a ditch, you need a tow truck, a chain and an unceremonious dude who knows what to do). You need a strategy. You need a hand. You need help.
Just like getting out of a ditch requires outside help, navigating depression and mental health challenges often means reaching out to someone who knows how to guide you through. It’s not a weakness—it’s a recognition that sometimes you need a strategy, a hand, and a steady presence to help you find your footing. That’s where Hebert Counseling comes in. With experienced professionals who understand the complexities of mental health, they provide the kind of support that helps you reconnect with yourself and your environment.
Therapy isn’t about being told what to do—it’s about working with someone who understands the underlying patterns and can help you create a plan to move forward. Depression can make even the simplest tasks feel insurmountable, but having someone to listen, validate your experience, and help you develop tools to regulate your nervous system makes all the difference.
Depression often feels like an insurmountable barrier, making it hard to see beyond the immediate struggles. It’s essential to recognize that this condition is not a personal failing but a natural response of the nervous system to overwhelming circumstances.
By understanding the interplay between brain inflammation, the prefrontal cortex, and the nervous system through frameworks like Polyvagal Theory, patients can gain insights into their experiences and find ways to support their mental health effectively. This knowledge can empower individuals to take proactive steps, but it’s also crucial to remember that overcoming depression frequently requires external support.
In this context, resources like Avesta Ketamine Wellness offer valuable assistance. Their approach integrates cutting-edge treatments with a supportive environment, providing a crucial lifeline for those in need. Just as a tow truck and a skilled driver are essential for getting out of a ditch, having access to professional help and a comprehensive treatment plan can make all the difference in navigating the complexities of depression.
With the right support and strategy, individuals can find their way through challenging times and work towards regaining their mental well-being. Who’s your support team? Who are the people around you?
I talk to my patients about bringing their loves ones on board to help them set up systems to regulate their nervous systems, nourish their brains and bodies (don’t even think for a second that I didn’t have a snack to munch on while waiting for the two truck–this fact is not even metaphorical. You NEED a literal snack to fuel your brain), and reduce inflammation.
There is a theory of depression that it is an ADAPTIVE state meant to get us through a difficult time.
Famine. Capture by a predator. Infection or illness. Isolation from the group.
These may have been the historical hunter-gatherer inputs that caused depression but now it seems that depression can be triggered anytime our bodies are in a perceived or real “stuck” state with no way out.
Many, if not most, or all, depressive episodes I’ve worked with follow a period of intense anxiety. Our body’s stress response burns out, we can no longer “get away from danger” and we shutdown and collapse.
We turn inwards. We immobilize. We ruminate (possibly as a way to THINK our way out of danger).
This is why the 2a serotonin receptors that encourage “active coping” or things like BDNF, which is involved in making new brain cells, have important roles in the treatment research for major depression.
I’ll bet you’ve been told you have a disease, though. Something incurable that you’ll deal with your whole life.
But what if, rather than a disease, depression is a STATE you visit, and sometimes get stuck in that follows anxiety, stress and certain triggers?
How might that change the way you see yourself and your mental health? How might that change the way you seek solutions to how you’re feeling?
“The Adaptive Rumination Hypothesis by Andrews and Thomson posits that depression is not a pathology but a set of useful complex thoughts and behaviours that enable troubled people to withdraw temporarily from the world, deliberate intensively about their social problems, and devise solutions.”
From the Psychiatric Times
The major problem with depression that keeps us stuck in the state is when we turn our rumination back on ourselves and engage in self criticism.
Is anyone else feeling wet dog in a bathtub-level lonely? With this pandemic loneliness is on the rise. And we already lived in an epidemic of loneliness. Humans are social creatures with attachment needs–and many of us are alone or surrounded by people who make us feel more alone. Sometimes loneliness doesn’t make sense.
This is a time when loneliness has turned from epidemic to global pandemic.
As we physically distance, the emotional distance between each other becomes greater.
I don’t have a solution to loneliness, but the great minds of neuroscience, psychology, literature, philosophy, and spirituality have written on it a great deal, and so I’m going to examine some of it in the following paragraphs.
1. “Saying Hello Again” When I first announced this project, many people reached out to me and talked about their grief: the loss of a spouse, a beloved pet.
Many more of us are grieving relationships with those who haven’t died, but who we don’t get to interact with as much anymore. Grief is a tricky subject. In our society we don’t have established rituals for grieving. In the DSM if you’ve lost a loved one more than two weeks ago, and your grief coincides with the symptoms for Major Depressive Disorder, you’re considered mentally ill.
Imagine losing someone important to you and not feeling depressed for more than two weeks…
In many instances we NEVER “get over” the pain of losing someone. And yet, in many ways, grief that interferes with our productivity and way of being is pathologized. Narrative Therapy invites us to grieve in ways that I have always felt were the richest and most helpful. It does this through a series of “Remembering Conversations”. (For more, I’ve linked to the paper “Saying Hello Again” by David Denborough.) You can speak remembering conversations out loud with a friend or therapist. You can write them down, or walk in the woods and reminisce. Find a quiet space where you can think of your loved one. It could be someone real, currently alive but not present–a religious figure, or a famous person. A stuffed animal. A pet. An ex-lover. Or someone who has passed away. Call them into your memory, and consider the questions. – What did [your loved one] see when they looked at you through loving eyes? – How did they know these things about you? – If they could be with you today, what would they say to you about the efforts you are making in your life? What words of encouragement would they offer? – What difference would it make to your relationships with others if you carried this knowledge with you in your daily life?
2. Feeling Lonely vs. Being Alone. “You come home, make some tea, sit down in your armchair, and all around there’s silence. Everyone decides for themselves whether that’s loneliness or freedom.” Surely solitude and loneliness are related but not equivalents. My patients and friends who are married with children crave alone time. My single friends who live alone crave company. What most of us want, however, is the feeling of freedom that comes with being ourselves. And we all know that this feeling can arise alone in the comfort of our own company or in the presence of those who fully accept us. The Dalai Lama has repeatedly claimed that he never gets lonely.
When he was asked the question “Do you get lonely?” at a speaking forum, it took the translator a while to convey the concept to him before he was able to answer. According to him, loneliness is not a condition of solitude. It’s a condition of mindset.
He weighs in: “We often are alone without feeling lonely and feel lonely when we are not alone, as when we are in a crowd of strangers or at a party of people we do not know. “Clearly the psychological experience of loneliness is quite different from the physical experience of being alone. “We can feel joy when we are alone but not when we are lonely… Much depends on your attitude. If you are filled with negative judgement and anger, then you will feel separate from other people. You will feel lonely. “But if you have an open heart and are filled with trust and friendship, even if you are physically alone, even living a hermit’s life, you will never feel lonely.” The loneliest I’ve felt is when I was in a relationship with someone whose love I couldn’t feel. But, I’ve felt completely at home and accompanied while traveling with strangers. When do you feel you can truly be as you are?
3. On being socially awkward and telling ourselves stories. We were in the midst of … isolation and so my friends cancelled their baby shower. They asked for books (if we were compelled to send gifts) and something else, I don’t remember…(clothes?) So I hopped on Amazon and happily ordered a few books I remember loving as a kid: Amos the sheep who doesn’t want to give up his wool, Frances the badger who gets conned into giving up her porcelain tea set in lieu of a plastic one, and so on. My friend is a therapist and I was sure he’d appreciate the psychotherapeutic subtext of these stories: finding self-worth, developing boundaries, etc. Anyways, I sent the books off and forgot about it. Then, one lonely evening I sat on the couch alone and let my Default Mode Network run rampant. I started ruminating on the books–they must have arrived. I hadn’t heard from my friends. Maybe they were going to send out more formal thank you card.
Or maybe something was wrong. Then I realized that they were about to have a BABY, a mere fetus+1 day. And I realized in horror I had sent them a pile of children’s books–for 3-5 year olds.
I felt out of touch, self-absorbed–I felt ashamed. And then I felt ashamed at my shame–surely this wasn’t such a big deal? What was wrong with me? I tried to Cognitive Behaviour Therapy my way out of this thought trap–this story about being weird and disconnected. I couldn’t do it. I eventually reached out to another friend who has two kids. She played the role of my prefrontal cortex (using others for emotional regulation is extremely helpful). She assured me that babies can’t read anyways and so, whatever, any kind of book is fine. Duh… then I realized: this is the collateral of isolation.
If the gifts had been unwrapped in person, I might have realized they were slightly age inappropriate and would have made a joke. People would have laughed, we would have moved on. Instead, my mind was free to fill the silent void with stories. Eventually I confessed my neuroticism to my friends, embarrassed. They laughed and thanked me for the gift. We tell ourselves stories about how others see us all the time. About their judgements and prejudices, motivations, anger, hostility and failings.
What story are you telling yourself about the people in your life?
4. The Power of Art. Remember this scene from the movie Good Will Hunting? Sean : [during a therapy session, after coming from the job interview with the NSA] Do you feel like you’re alone, Will? Will : [laughs] What? Sean : Do you have a soul mate? Will : Define that. Sean : Somebody who challenges you. Will : I have Chuckie. Sean : You know Chuck; he’s family. He’d lie down in fuckin’ traffic for you. No, I’m talking about someone who opens up things for you – touches your soul. Will : I got – I got… Sean : Who? Will : …I got plenty. Sean : Well, name them. Will : Shakespeare, Nietzsche, Frost, O’Connor, Pope, Locke… Sean : That’s great. They’re all dead. Will : Not to me they’re not.
This exchange has always come to mind when I think about the loneliness of trying to find a soulmate–someone who knows the secrets and truths that lie deep in our hearts. Do our soulmates need to be living people who we share our lives with? People we can converse with on a daily basis? Ideally yes. However, many people in literature will speak of the phenomenon about feeling alone in a crowded room, with no one to share their private thoughts. When we read someone’s deep thoughts and feelings and relate it… makes us feel less alone, especially if what we’re reading speaks directly to our own hearts. You know that sensation, when you’re feeling something really deeply and then you read or hear someone else (maybe someone you know, maybe someone famous, or dead) describe that phenomenon in a way that is far more eloquent and articulate than you feel you ever could?
That feeling of being deeply validated and understood. Literary soulmates. People who have thought long and hard about this particular existential human experience you’re going through right now.
Not only have they lived it, but they’ve taken the trouble to put it into words, images, music. To remind you that you’re sharing a nervous system with 8 billion other living human beings . To remind you that you’re not alone.
5. Making Friends as an Adult aka Going After What Lights You Up. “You can’t make friends in your 30s”.
My friend’s brother is an investment banker in Manhattan and this was his claim a few years ago. My friend, a bonafide hippie (they are hilarious opposites) and I wondered if it was true. I’ve spent pockets of my adult life wishing I had more friends. I’ve had long conversations with patients who wish they had more friends, or are looking to date and having trouble meeting people. One of the things I was grieving during the last few months was loss of the spontaneity of meeting people.
No more picnics on the Island where a random group of people invite me to share their wine and then write letters to my Nonna.
No more “networking” events I decide at the last minute to drop in on, where I meet a friend who introduces me to someone who would soon be a best friend. No more of that randomness. A contraction of possibilities. The same friend wrote to me, in an email we sent to each other in our early 20s when we were out of school and trying to find our way. “I don’t even know what it is about making friends. It can just be so random the way you meet someone in passing you might really connect [with] or you might ignore each other after 5 minutes and never speak again.
“The philosophy is right — if you go after what lights you up you are bound to stumble upon someone else who is lit on that in their own way and for their own reasons so you are bound to connect on some level!” And, of course we’ve heard this so many times: go after what you’re passionate about and the people will trickle in, like a kind of osmotic current. And it’s easier said that done, finding out what lights you up. I suppose it starts with creating an open question and waiting for the answer to show itself. Lake surfing was one of the answers that manifested itself to me. It’s been a blessing for me in so many ways–from even finding out it existed, to randomly meeting people in the line-up to my regular surf buddies, to the photographers who celebrate us on social media, the sport, although technically a solo one, is all about connectivity. Water is sticky. so are we.
6. Self-Soothing. Will scientists and drug companies create a pill for loneliness? Hormones like oxytocin, endogenous opioids (our body’s own morphine) and allo-pregnenalone, a steroid hormone related to estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and cortisol, are all common targets for “medicating” loneliness. We can medicate loneliness ourselves, however through self-soothing. Self-soothing behaviours include: – talking about your emotions with others – social and physical warmth (getting cozy and Hygge) – Touching, including self touch and self holds – Soothing music – Satiety through consuming high-calorie foods (chocolate, anyone?) – And even drugs, although engaging in the above self-soothing behaviours tends to protect against drug addiction in the research–if you’re able to reach for a cozy sweater and a puppy in order to self-soothe you’re probably less likely to turn to alcohol. Self-soothing behaviours increase oxytocin in the brain. They calm areas of the brain like the insula and amygdala that are associated with anxiety. Self-soothing boosts endogenous opioids (research shows that opioids like morphine help calm the sting of social rejection, which our brain perceives to be the same as physical pain), and serotonin and dopamine. Self-touch or self-holds is an excellent way to self-soothe. In my podcast on Polyvagal Theory with Dr. Steph Cordes, we talk about self-touch: things like putting a hand on your chest, wrapping your arms around yourself, child’s pose, or cupping your face in your hand. Sometimes speaking your own emotions can be helpful (“I feel sad right now” or “This is hard”). Also, particularly where these emotions pertain to loneliness, invoking a common humanity can he a helpful tool for feeling less alone and can help soothe and process hard feelings. “Everyone feels this way sometimes”, or “Suffering is a part of life”. In Mindful Self-Compassion, invoking a common humanity is an important step in taking the burden of our feelings off of ourselves and recognizing that we’re all interconnected in the emotional space. How do you self-soothe?
7. Attunement. “[Attuning with others] is at the heart of the important sense of “feeling felt” that emerges in close relationships. “Children need attunement to feel secure and to develop well, and throughout our lives we need attunement to feel close and connected.” – Dan Siegel, MD Attunement is the process of responding to another’s emotional cues. Infants first learn attunement from their parents. When a parent can read a baby’s expressions or hear her cries and respond appropriately: with comfort, food, warmth, a diaper change, it builds a sense of trust in the infant’s body. The baby feels seen and understood by the world. A lack of attunement can cause attachment insecurity: leading to feelings of anxiety, distrust, emotional avoidance, depression, and relationship dissatisfaction. It’s ultimately lack of attunement that results in mental health challenges in an adult’s life. Attuning to others can be hard if you didn’t receive the proper attunement from your parents. However, we can still learn to attune to ourselves and others as adults.
Here are some tips for learning how to be more attuned: – Attune to yourself first: starting by recognizing what you feel in your body: what thoughts, emotions and feelings are present? How are you breathing? – Practicing mindfulness can help you understand what is going on in your body and mind, as you learn to attune to yourself emotionally. – When trying to attune to another, limit distractions (turning off the TV, putting away cellphones, etc.) so that you can fully pay attention to the emotional space. – Make eye contact and mirror the others’ physical cues: mimic their postures, gestures and even tone of voice. Physical mirroring is a hallmark skill of attunement. – Listen carefully with compassionate curiosity: seek to understand before seeking to be understood (a useful cliche). Can you give the other person the benefit of the doubt? Can you try your best to relate to what they might be staying and hold them in what Carl Rogers called “Unconditional Positive Regard”? – Can you try to identify what emotions someone might be experiencing as you talk to or sit with them? What are you feeling in your own body?
8. Sharing the Things that Matter “Loneliness isn’t the physical absence of other people – it’s the sense that you’re not sharing anything that matters with anyone else.”
— Johann Hari, from his book Lost Connections. Johann also writes: “Be you. Be yourself… “We say it to encourage people when they are lost, or down. Even our shampoo bottles tell us—because you’re worth it. But what I was being taught is—if you want to stop being depressed, don’t be you. Don’t be yourself. Don’t fixate on how you’re worth it. It’s thinking about you, you, you that’s helped to make you feel so lousy. Don’t be you. “Be us. Be we. Be part of the group. Make the group worth it. “The real path to happiness, they were telling me, comes from dismantling our ego walls—from letting yourself flow into other people’s stories and letting their stories flow into yours; from pooling your identity, from realizing that you were never you—alone, heroic, sad—all along. “No, don’t be you. Be connected with everyone around you. Be part of the whole. Don’t strive to be the guy addressing the crowd. Strive to be the crowd. So part of overcoming our depression and anxiety—the first step, and one of the most crucial—is coming together.” And, “Now, when I feel myself starting to slide down, I don’t do something for myself—I try to do something for someone else. I go to see a friend and try to focus very hard on how they are feeling and making them feel better. “I try to do something for my network, or my group—or even try to help strangers who look distressed. “I learned something I wouldn’t have thought was possible at the start. Even if you are in pain, you can almost always make someone else feel a little bit better. Or I would try to channel it into more overt political actions, to make the society better. When I applied this technique, I realized that it often—though not always—stopped the slide downward. It worked much more effectively than trying to build myself up alone.” I think what Johann is saying is that a sense of meaning, purpose, belonging can’t coexist with loneliness.
Psychoanalyst Francis Weller says it another way,
“at some point we have to stop being the one looking for homecoming and be the one offering it.
“As long as I identify as the homeless child who didn’t get welcomed back I need to make a pivot and say ‘I can also, because of that wound find the medicine of welcome’.”
In what way does being of service help you feel more connected?
How have you learned to deliver what Francis calls “the medicine of welcome” to others?
9. Needs are the doorway to the Inner Child, Imagination, Desire and Purpose. James Hillman, the great Jungian psychoanalyst urges us to use our needs–loneliness being one–to explore the depths of our soul. Loneliness, according to Hillman is, like any other need, “a voice that demands to be satisfied”.
We believe that loneliness represents a void that can be filled by something external: a person’s physical presence, or the actions or words of another that fills the space inside. But a need is actually a doorway: to the Inner Child, who opens the door to the imagination. The need represents something much more, not just love but a kind of archetypal, “divine” love. Not just company, but the deep longing to be whole, to unite with “the beyond”. When we feel needy, or lonely, our Inner Child, according to the Jungians, is crying out. It doesn’t just want to complain.
Hillman says, “The intensity of the need reflects the immensity of the world beyond from which it comes.” The child can help us imagine–when we articulate the need, speak it out loud and feel deeply into the body the sensations that that need creates (where do you feel the need? Where do you feel loneliness?), we let it come up fully. We turn towards the child. We can then be specific about the need. What are we fantasizing will fill this loneliness? Who do I want with me? What would they say? What would they do? Are we riding horses in the sunset?
Allowing the images to come.
Allowing the needs to become wants. When we stay with the loneliness long enough, this voice crying to be satisfied, until it becomes a want, something interesting happens. The emptiness of the need, the lack that represents loneliness begins to become filled: with wanting, with desire. The writer DH Lawrence tells us that “Desire is holy”. It is hot, fiery, passionate. It fills us: “I am filled with desire”. It motivates us. It makes things happen. Desire connects us with the beyond. It moves us towards our purpose.
According to Hillman, a fear of desire stands in the way of finding one’s purpose.
We are afraid of the Inner Child: the weakness that being needy represents.
We feel shameful at our weakness, at our neediness. We deny the needs, or try to fill them some other way. Or we criticize ourselves, punishing the child, or ignoring the child.
But what if this deep, existential loneliness, this longing to be united with what “lies beyond” or what lies deeply in our soul is really the doorway to purpose, to fire, to passion, to an integrated and complete psyche.
What if this neediness is not asking to be filled by external factors: parties, social media likes, validation, but with this deeply felt sense of desire that fuels us in the direction of our dreams?
What is the loneliness asking of you?
When you let the loneliness cry out, when you allow it to provide you with images, and when you allow the loneliness to become a want, what does it drive you to do?
What does it fill you with?
What does it inspire you to do next?
10. Getting To Know Yourself. “If you’re lonely when you’re alone, you’re in bad company.”
— Jean-Paul Sartre. Through this series we’ve explored the concept of feeling alone while surrounded by other people, and feeling utterly content while in complete solitude. And, so loneliness isn’t so much about being physically isolated, but in our deeper inner feelings of connection. The Stoics and the Buddhists tell us that, when we feel lonely it’s because we’ve stepped out of the present moment.
We’ve turned our thoughts to what we lack; we’ve identified with our suffering.
And, according to James Hillman and many other thought leaders on the psyche, we’ve decided that the solution to our suffering is located “out there”, in the external world. But no, say the Buddhists, Stoics and other philosophers. The solution to our suffering is internal. It lies within. And so, they say, when you’re lonely, you need to spend even more time alone–getting to know yourself. When we know ourselves, we feel relaxed in our own company. When we know ourselves, we can share ourselves with others when we’re blessed with their company, thus feeling more connected to them and less alone. Perhaps loneliness isn’t being isolated from others—not all the time.
Loneliness is the feeling we have when we’re isolated from our true selves. So, how can we get to know ourselves? The Buddhists say, sit.
Pay attention to your thoughts, your emotions and your body sensations in the present moment.
James Hillman tell us to watch our pain turn into desire, which tells us what the soul deeply wants. This time of year is hard for a lot of us. Add on a global pandemic, and this year is looking like a challenging one for most. Can you spend some quiet time alone with yourself?
Can you watch the feelings of loneliness arise and fall in your body? Can you deliver yourself a little self-compassion? In those private moments of emptiness, say: “Loneliness is here”. “Everybody feels this way sometimes”. “May I be kind to myself”. And, can you say:
She told me that lately, all the children she works with have a label. “Meredith can’t attend your online class because it’s her first day of school and she can’t handle more than two things because of her anxiety”, one mother wrote in an email as she backed out of a private class my friend had created by special request.
“Everyone is nervous on their first day of school”, my friend remarked, as she recounted the story to me.
“I need everyone’s microphones muted”, a 10-year old student exclaimed during an online class, “I have sensory overwhelm and attention deficit disorder and can’t handle background noise”.
My friend spent three years teaching in a rural school at the edge of a volcano in Guatemala. She worked in a private girls’ school in Colombia. And she taught grade 1 at an outdoor jungle school on the Pacific Coast of Mexico. “I’m not used to these North American kids”, she reflected.
“I wonder what diagnoses we’d have gotten in university?” I mused. I remember our Revolutionary Wall–pictures of Noam Chomsky, Victor Jara and Ghandi plastered on the wall that welcomed us into the entrance of our dirty apartment.
That year we’d worn our sweaters backward because it “felt right” to rest your chin on your hood, stopped washing our hair to “let the oils moisturize our roots”, and spent a week on a 1000-piece puzzle instead of going to class.
It was our last year. We were done.
My other friend was diagnosed with cancer, which would soon turn terminal. I was suffering from some sort of unacknowledged eating disorder–there were no body positivity Instagram feeds at the time. I could have used some.
It was a painful year.
For those and many more reasons, I’m sure, I was depressed.
I remember at some point during that year heading to a walk-in clinic because I was gaining weight, depressed, exhausted and completely shutdown. The walk-in clinic doctor told me “it wasn’t my thyroid” and to “eat less” so that I would lose weight.
I never got a diagnosis.
I was never offered an antidepressant.
I remember feeling hopeless. Desperate for an answer, but most of all, a solution.
If she had offered me an antidepressant, I’m certain I would have taken it. In fact, I did end up taking one about a year later for a brief period when living in Colombia (before the side effects made me stop).
I escaped a label.
My journey forked in the road and I took the one less traveled that led me towards naturopathic medicine.
Before that, though, I saw my own natural doctor who listened to me and put together the puzzle of my symptoms (who knew that skipping class to put together our 1000-piece puzzle would figuratively prepare me for my future career).
Rather than diagnose me, he listened to me and told me the underlying causes of my symptoms–not just what they were called.
And then, because we knew the cause, we also had a solution. And I soon felt better.
Of course, when I started naturopathic school, another 4-year full-time program with full days of classes (sometimes 10+ hours a day) and millions of exams and assignments, the underlying hormonal conditions that drove the original depressive episode I experienced at the end of my undergrad resurfaced.
I ended up seeing a fourth year naturopathic intern and she put me on something called adaptogens.
Adaptogens are class of plants. They support our Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal (HPA) response, which orchestrates the stress response. They are studied in rats who, when given adaptogens can perform longer on swim tests, producing less cortisol (our stress hormone) in the process.
These rats can tread water longer, without as much stress hormone and therefore, with less damage from stress. Depression is one of those side effects from the damage of psychosocial stress.
Stress leads to shutdown, inflammation and further hormonal imbalance, causing a wide variety of symptoms that seem disconnected but arise from the same source.
After all, isn’t depression, anxiety and burnout just us trying to keep our heads above water?
Oh man, did I ever wish I’d known about adaptogens in undergrad!
If I could have, I would have shouted about them from the rooftops, thrown bottles of them out of a plane, put them in the water supply.
I can’t do those things, but I can put many of my patients on them. Many of my patients suffering from depression and anxiety, caused by problems with their HPA axises, end up taking adaptogens.
I prescribe them when those I work with experience things like low mood, fatigue, sleep issues, inflammation (pain and swelling), hormone imbalances, particularly PMS or peri-menopause, sugar and salt cravings, delayed muscle recovery, tension, panic attacks and anxiety, dizziness and weakness, low motivation, and other oh-so-common symptoms often labelled as Major Depressive Disorder or other psychiatric illnesses.
Did I ever wish I’d known about adaptogens when I was in undergrad.
Instead I remember taking a crappy B vitamin complex from the local drugstore that a roommate’s mom gave me because I was on the birth control pill and “you need B vitamins on the birth control pill”. (Which is true: you need more vitamin B6 on the pill, but probably not one from a local drugstore multivitamin).
It didn’t do much.
I really really wish someone, a fairy godmother, the walk-in clinic physician, a man on the street, an article somewhere on the internet (like this one), had told me, “You have these symptoms because you are suffering from HPA axis dysfunction, as a result of significant psychosocial stress. This makes you suffer from the symptoms you’re dealing with, depression not being a condition of its own, but just another symptom of this condition.
“Adaptogenic herbs can help you get through this, as well as some important foundational lifestyle pieces that someone like a naturopathic doctor can help you with.
“There is a reason for your suffering. A context behind it. There is a cause we can identify.
“And, most importantly, there is a solution.”
But, I didn’t have anyone to tell me that.
I really wish someone had told me about adaptogens, but I haven’t ever wished that someone had diagnosed me with depression.
Now, a diagnosis can be extremely validating for some.
It can be lifesaving.
Medical intervention can also be really helpful for some people. But, like adaptogens (I should add), medications aren’t a one-size-fits-all solution.
We don’t know what causes depression and anxiety (likely many factors, HPA axis dysfunction being one of them), but we do know it’s not caused by a chemical brain imbalance.
And medications are designed to correct the brain imbalance that doesn’t exist, which is why they don’t work in everyone.
However, they do do something in some. Because, even though they don’t really solve the problem they’re supposed to (at least not in that simplistic way), they might be doing something else, which solves a problem in a few people.
The problem is, antidepressants make some people feel worse. In others they do nothing. And, in some of the people they do help, they don’t do enough. We’re still suffering.
And labels, while they can be helpful and lifesaving in some cases, can do damage in others.
Take my friend’s student with anxiety. What if her story of “I get stressed out on the first day of school because I have anxiety” turned into:
“I get stressed out on the first day of school because a lot of people do. It’s normal to feel nervous and anxious on the first day of school and want everything to go right.”
Now, of course, I don’t want to insinuate that anxiety isn’t a real thing. Of course it is!
There are many of us who suffer from anxiety disorders–a higher amount of anxiety than is common. Rather than first-day jitters, they might experience severe panic and complete dysfunction that make life miserable.
However, in the first example, the power is out of this student’s hands. It lies in her identity. In her dysfunction.
In her label.
In the second, it becomes a shared human experience, which she might be able to externalize and work with. Because it’s a common experience, she might find support, kinship, and understanding in those who experience the same.
Of course, I don’t know her case specifically. Maybe her diagnosis has helped her. Maybe her anxiety is well labelled and managed. Maybe she doesn’t need help. Maybe she is doing just fine.
All I know is, I wonder what I would have been diagnosed with, with my sweater on backwards, my hair full of grease, my body heavy like lead, a million puzzle pieces spewed all over the kitchen table in my dirty apartment with the revolutionary wall.
I have no idea what my diagnosis would have been, but I’m personally glad I never got one.
Instead, I wish I had had the permission to go through what I was going through.
I wish I’d had context for my suffering.
I wish I’d been given hope that things would get better.
I wish someone had empowered me through understanding the underlying causes of my symptoms and, of course,
